LL-L "Etymology" 2004.01.19 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 19.FEB.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: ezinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.01.19 (02) [E/A]

Hi all,

Ron, the old Afrikaans form for:
> Modern English: yonder
> Modern Scots:  yonder
> Old English:  ƺonder~ƺender
> Old Frisian:  ? (> W. ginder)
> Old Saxon:  gendra (> günder)
> Gothic:  jaindrê

is "gunter". The /u/ is a somewhat rounded schwa.
My maternal grandmother (born 1899) still used it and I suspect it's still
used by old folk speaking Ooskus Afrikaans.

Groete,
Elsie

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Elsie.

By the way, folks, this thread reminded me to ask how far spread adjectival
derivations from such words are within the Lowlands languages.

In Lowlands Saxon (Low German) you get the following derived adjectives:

hyr (<hier>) 'here' > hyre (/hiir-@/)
daar 'there' > dare (/daar-@/)

These tend to follow a definite article; e.g.,

dat hyre bouk ("the here-being book" =) 'the/this book here'
dey hyre vrou ("the here-being woman") 'the/this woman here'
dey hyre man ("the here-being man") 'the/this man here'

dat dare bouk ("the there-being book" =) 'the/that book there'
dey dare vrou ("the there-being woman") 'the/that woman there'
dey dare man ("the there-being man") 'the/that man there'

These adjectives can also be used as nouns; e.g.,

Vun dat hyre un dat dare weet ik niks af.
("From/of the here-being and the there-being know I nothing of(f).")
I know nothing about this (stuff) here and that (stuff) there.

I suppose the Afrikaans words for 'this' and 'that' are not unrelated to
this:

hierdie ("here-that" > "here-the") 'this'
daardie ("there-that" > "there-the") 'that'

e.g.,

hierdie boek 'this book'
hierdie vrou 'this woman'
hierdie man 'this man'

daardie boek 'that book'
daardie vrou 'that woman'
daardie man 'that man'

In some English dialect of the (Southern) United States you will find
similar constructions; e.g.,

this here book
that thare man

In Standard German you get _hiesig_ (< _hier_ 'here') for 'local (here)'
(e.g., _die hiesigen Behörden_ 'the local authorities (of this place)', and
_dortig_ (< _dort_ 'there') 'local (there)', e.g., _die dortigen Behörden_
'the local authorities (of that place)'.  (The discrepancy /r/ vs. /z/ in
_hier_ > _hiesig_ has something to do with the old *-z ~ *-r phoneme, I
suppose.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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