LL-L "Phonology" 2004.01.13 (06) [E]

Tue Jan 13 18:08:49 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Heiko Evermann <Heiko.Evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: Origin of "Servia" in dutch

Hi Ron,

a web search for Servia yields:
* http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13732a.htm (a catholic dictionary,
published in 1912).
* http://pub18.ezboard.com/fbalkansserbiaforum (discussion forum, listing
"Srbija / Servia / Serbia" in its title)
If you search for "Servia Balkans" to filter out some websites to filter out
some noise, you'll find quite a lot of sites with the Englisch spelling
"Servia".

So it might not be just a dutch phenomenon to spell it with "v". Maybe it
has an origin deeper in history?

http://47.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SE/SERVIA.htm (another old encyclopedia)
has the interesting remark
<quote>
The English-speaking races alone write this word with a v instead of a b,
Servia for Serbia; a practice resented by the Serbs, as suggesting the
derivation of their name from the Latin Servus.
</quote>

Isn't that funny? 100 years ago, Servia was the usual English word?

When I restrict google to German pages I find
http://digbib.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/dda/flugschriften_autoren_d.html
with the passage

<quote>
Vertrag <1718.07.21>: Friedens-Instrument, So zwischen Dem
Allerdurchleuchtigst- und Großmächtigsten ... Herrn Carl dem Sechsten,
Römischen Kaiser ...
Einer: Und ... Herrn Sultan Ahmed Han, Ottomanischen, wie auch in Asien und
Griechenland Kaiser, Ander Seits : den Ein und zwanzigsten July, Eintausend
Siebenhundert und Achtzehen, Nächst Possarowitz, im Königreich Servien
geschlossen ... / Deutschland <Römisch-Deutsches Reich> ; Türkiye. Mitarb.:
Karl
<Römisch-Deutsches Reicch, Kaiser, VI.> ; Achmad <Türkiye, Sultan, III.>* -
Wien :
Schönwetter, 1718 ca.. - 8 Bl.
</quote>

where even in German the name "Servien" was used.

So I wonder what the original name was. Maybe the B in Srbska is a hardened
V?

Regards,

Heiko

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From: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.01.13 (05) [E]

Ron and Gabrielle,
Thanks for the further explanation.  However,
Gabrielle, I speak Spanish and am quite sure (plus I
checked it with Vox and La Real Academia online) that
it is "Serbia" in Spanish (though according to Vox the
adjective "servio" exists as an alternative alongside
"serbio").  However it is true that b/v are the same
sound in Spanish.
Anyway, I appreciate all the information.
Stan
> From: Global Moose Translations
> <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.01.13 (03) [D/E]

> I think that one is easily answered. The name is
> "Servia" in Spanish
> (Castellano), too. Spanish does not distinguish much
> between the consonants
> "b" and "v", and they are pronounced almost
> identically, too.
>
> So it must have been the Spanish influence in the
> Netherlands, I assume.
>
> Gabriele Kahn
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Stan, Lowlanders,
>
> I wrote:
>
> > Today's name for the country you mentions is
> "Serbien" ['zE.3`biEn], as in
> > German.  If a native version existed I would
> expect it to be *_Sarviën_ or
> > *_Sarbiën_, perhaps *"Seerviën" or *"Seerviën".
>  One of the complicating
> > factors is that there are two relevant types of
> dialects: _verdarven_ ~
> > _verdarben_ 'to spoil', _starven_ ~ _starben_ 'to
> die', etc. (i.e.,
> > [sonorant]v~b[sonorant]).
>
> Let me further clarify:
>
> (1) What in related language varieties is stressed
> /er/ tends to be stressed
> /ar/ in most Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects.
> Since most of them are
> "non-rhotic" (i.e. "drop" syllable-final /r/) this
> is pronounced pretty much
> like Australian English /ar/ [a:] as in "car" or
> "heart," e.g.,
>
> LS - Dutch - Afrikaans - W.Fries. - English - German
> kark [ka:k] - kerk - kerk - tsjerke - church -
> Kirche
> barg [ba:x] - berg - berg - berch - (mountain) -
> Berg
> dwarg [dva:x] - dwerg - dwerg - dwerch - dwarf -
> Zwerg
> karn [ka:n] - kern - kern - ? - kernel - Kern
>
> (2) Most dialects of LS have /v/ between two vowels
> or between a liquid and
> a vowel.  Some of them, especially those of the
> Lower Elbe region, have /b/
> instead.  This goes back to a sound that in Old
> Saxon was represented by
> means of a barred "b", perhaps then a bilabial
> fricative as in Castilian
> (Spanish) <b>/<v> [2]; e.g.,
>
>  ver ~ öber < oƀar 'over', 'above', 'across'
> geven ~ geben < geƀan 'to give'
> starven ~ starben < sterƀan 'to die' (cf. Engl. "to
> starve")
> halve ~ halbe < halƀa 'half (one(s))'
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

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