LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.28 (02) [E/Italian]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 28.JUL.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Etymology

Beste Ron,

>Swedish _sant_, Norwegian _sant_, Danish _sandt_, etc., are adverbial
>derivations (/-t/) of adjectival Swedish _sann_, Norwegian _sann_, Danish
>_sand_ 'right', 'correct', 'true', 'factual', etc.; cf. Old Norse _sannr_
>'id.', _sanna_ 'to confirm', _sannagetall_ 'to assume as true', _sannleikr_
>'truth', _sannligr_ 'probable', 'believable', 'proper', _sannfro¯ðr_ 'well
>informed', _sannsogli_ 'truth in speech', _sanns?gull_ 'being truthful',
and
>_sannyrði_ 'truth'.

>I cannot help but wonder if these words are related to Latin _sa¯nus_
>(/sa¯n-/) 'healthy', 'well', 'right' and its Romance relations, derive from
>Indo-European _sa¯nos_ 'whole' = 'as should be."

These Scandinavian words are cognate with English _sooth_, as in
"soothsayer", "for sooth", "soothfast", "in good sooth" and the verb "to
soothe", all having something to do with "truth" (originally) <
Indo-European *sontos, present participle of IE *es "to be", compare Dutch
"zijnde".

The Christian concept of "sin" however did not exist among Germanic people,
so "sin" would be an early church loan from Latin "sons", "sontis" (see
above).

Latin "sanus" is another case I think, as it happened to be known only in
the Umbrian and Venetian regions.
"Saint", past participle of Latin "sancire" (to consecrate, render holy),
which in turn is derived from "sacer" (holy) < IE *sak, to elevate.
Note by the way that in Greek and Indian culture, "sacred" objects
apparently had two "faces", one that inspired  devotion and one that wreaked
havoc:

Sacro è ciò che è degno di adorazione (dalla radice tyeg e dal greco 'sebo',
venero), ma è anche (dalla radice sak) ciò che è terribile, da cui si deve
stare lontani. Così il latino "sacer", ci ricorda il dizionario, significa
insieme sacro e maledetto, venerabile e temuto, benefico e minaccioso.

Patrick C. Ryan links *sak even with Japanese "sake" (wine), in an attempt
to reconstruct a common ancestor of IE and Japanese. But no, not in the
sense of "that wich lifts our spirits" *s*

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.27 (03) [E]

Dear Denis & Ron,

Subject: etymology

> In dutch there is this expression : "geen sant in eigen land", meaning
> "no one is a prophet in his own country".

> Are you sure this _sant_ is unrelated to "saint" (in which case it would
> have undergone a semantic shift -- "someone chosen, with a special gift"
>)?

We say, 'Geen sant in sy eie land.' It is a straight quote from the Bible, &
the English says, 'A prophet is not without honour, except in his own
country.' Jesus was quoting a Jewish expression.

In Afrikaans 'sant' means saint, but it is rarely used. We have a preference
for 'heilige', as we do for all terms & roots of Teutonic origin.
However, the application of the expression is fairly loose. A young man may
be held in great respect, except in his own household, & if he notes this,
someone will quote that at him.
There are many such words in Afrikaans that survive only in 'old saws', like
this. Another is 'ros en ruiter', meaning 'horse & rider', though the ag
Afrikaans for 'horse' is 'perd'

yrs Sincerely,
Mark

----------

From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
Subject: Etymology


Hello Ron and Lowland folks,
I was wondering if you could help me understand about the origins of the
English word "Garden". I have noticed there are at least 3 variations used
by different languages with probably more variants used by these languages
that I am not aware of.
English - Garden
German - Garten
Limburgs 1 - Gaart
Dutch - Tuin
Afrikaans - Tuin
Frisian - Tun
Norwegian - Hage
Danish - Have
Limburgs 2 - Haof
Has the meaning of garden changed throughout history?
Cheers
Peter S
snepvangers at optushome.com.au

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Hi, Pete!

Thanks for the clarification and the private communication.

Strewth!  This topic sure got your juices flowing, didn't it?

Hope you had a good time in Tasmania and didn't freeze too much down there.
Great to have you back!

Ta-ta!
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================