LL-L "Orthography" 2004.06.04 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 04.JUN.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2004.06.04 (01) [E]

Tom Maguire wrote:

> Correct spelling is basically a question of reading. The less you read
> the more difficult it will be for you to spell 'correctly'.

That's true, in principle... but unfortunately, most of what many people
read today isn't spelled correctly in the first place - I'm talking of
Internet forums, personal websites and chat rooms. If you encounter the
spellings "recieved", "dalmation" and "priviledge" at least twenty times a
month, how long will it take until your brain classifies them as "correct"?

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Tom Maguire wrote:

> Correct spelling is basically a question of reading. The less you read
> the more difficult it will be for you to spell 'correctly'.

No one in their right mind would argue with that, Tom.  However, it does not
really address the core issue, which is that, in comparison with the vast
majority of the world's languages, way too much time and effort goes into
learning to spell and read English (and to learn to correctly pronounce each
word newly encountered while reading, which in the case of non-native
speakers is a very large number).  This level of deficient orthographic
predictability (which is similar in other extremely historical systems such
as Tibetan and vertically written Mongolian, as I had mentioned) is
surpassed only by wholly or partly non-sound-based systems such as those of
Chinese, Japanese and precontemporary (mixed-script) Korean.  It is similar
in Arabic and Hebrew (and to a lesser degree also in Farsi) in which vowels
(at least short vowels) are usually not represented.

> Proposals to change traditional speling are based on replacing it with
> phonetic spelling. But who's phonetics? Will we all have to spell with
> an LA or NY accent for the convenience of economically powerful
non-readers?

This is one of the most commonly made false assumptions.  No writing system
is "phonetic" other than the International Phonetic Alphabet and similar
systems for scientific use (in linguistics as well as speech and hearing
science).  Yes, the types of system we are talking about (i.e., alphabets
and syllabaries) are sound-based.  However, they are not phonetically based
but *phonemically* based.  In other words, ideally only phonemes (i.e.,
basic, "underlying" phonic segments) are represented.  In an ideal case
(namely where a system is truly phonemic) all you have to do is learn the
*system* (once, perhaps even in just a few hours, reinforced by reading and
writing practice) rather than the spelling of individual words (which goes
on for the rest of your life).  Furthermore, this type of system is by its
very nature interdialectal, because phonological differences (in the
phonetic output) between dialects do not even enter the equasion in reading
and writing.

However, as an American friend of mine said about this issue yesterday, the
attitude of the majority of English speakers (namely Americans) is such that
even otherwise universally applying metric standards will not be accepted by
the general public and their representatives, leave alone a "scary" thing
like spelling reform, no matter how compelling arguments in favor of it may
be.  And who cares about all those poor people and foreigners anyway?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================