LL-L "Etymology" 2004.02.29 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29.FEB.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: niels winther [nwi at dfds.dk]
Subject: Etymology

Ron wrote:

> I believe that at one time _pen_ and _pose_ could be used
> for the same thing.  Nowadays, many people use _pen_
> generically for "(any sort of)writing instrument," pretty
> much the way English speakers use "pen."  I think
> _pose_ ~ _poos'_ is used specifically for (1)
> "writing quill" and for (2) "(metal) nib of an ink pen or
> fountain pen."...........................................

> .... Now, I have no idea where this _pose_ comes from,
> and I cannot find any cognate in related languages.
> Does any of you have any idea?

Hello Ron,

In Danish _pennepose_ is the hollow end of the feather from
which the quill is cut.

Danish _pose_ in general is something swollen, something hollow,
something puffed up, most often used nowadays for a small bag
or sack. Also used as a verb.

Cheers
Niels

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From: jkrause <jkrause at old-sod-shanty.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ron,
    The words I found in my Pluatdietsch dictionary was
"tintfada"--literally "ink feather"  or "stolfada" literally "steel
feather."  Both could be used, apparently to mean "pen."
Jim

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Niels and Jim, for the input above.

Jim, the Mennonite Lowlands Saxon (Plautdietsch) word _tintfada_ reminds me
of a couple of things.

First of all, let me state that I am pretty sure that _tintfada_ is a
"semi-loan."  The first component, _tint_, must be a loan from ("High")
German _Tinte_ 'ink'.  If it were an indigenous word I would expect _Dint_.
In fact, that is the word in the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) of Germany:
_Dinte_ or _Dint_.  These are obviously related to English "tint," perhaps
loaned from Italian _tinto_, and to the earlier English form _tinct_, going
back to Latin _tÄ«nctus_ 'color'.  German has _Tinte_ and Yiddish ×˜×™× ×˜ _tint_
for 'ink', feminine gender nouns derived from feminine forms: Old German
_tincta_, from Medieval Latin _tīncta_ 'dyed liquid', related to the verb
_tingere_ 'to dye', which is related to German _tunken_ and perhaps to its
possible English cognate "to dunk" (originally *"to immerse in dyer's
liquid"?).

(By the way, Estonian, a Finnic language, made Lowlands Saxon _dint_ into
_tint_ -- Germanic d > Finnic t -- and also has _tindipott_ 'ink-well' from
Lowlands Saxon _dintpot_ 'ink-well', lit. "ink pot."  Latvian, a Baltic
language, has _tinte_ for 'ink', probably also from Lowlands Saxon, since
Latvian has _d-_ only in more recent loanwords.  I am basing my assumptions
on the fact that these languages have more and earlier Lowlands Saxon
influences than German ones.)

As I said, Lowlands Saxon has _dint(e)_ for 'ink'.  An alternative word is
_blak_ (<Black>).  Obviously, this is a cognate of English "black," which
comes from Old English _blæc_, said to be of uncertain origin.   I cannot
think of any cognates in Dutch and German, though Old German has _blah_ (for
'ink'?).  The word is alive and well as *the* word for 'ink' in North
Germanic varieties: Danish _blæk_, Norwegian _blekk_, Swedish _bläck_,
Icelandic _blek_ and Old Norse _blek_.  I am wondering if we are dealing
with true cognates or with some sort of loaning one way or another.

I am wondering if English "black" and Scots _black_ originally meant
something like "ink-colored," and if the original word from 'black' was
"swart," which would be consistent with the words for 'black' in other
Germanic languages: Dutch _zwart_, Afrikaans _swart_, W. Frisian _swart_,
Lowlands Saxon _swart_ ~ _swat_, Old Saxon _swart_, Danish _sort_, Norwegian
_svart_, Swedish _svart_, Icelandic _svört_, Old Norse _svartr_, German
_schwarz_, Yiddish שװאַרץ _švarc_, Old German _swarz_ < Germanic *_swartaz_.
This is consistent with the meanings the cognates in English: "swart" and
"swarthy" (~ "swarty") (dark-hued) < Old English _sweart_.

English "ink," Scots _ink_, Dutch _ink_, Afrikaans _ink_ and W. Frisian
_inket_ apparently go back to Latin _encau(s)tum_ (from Greek εγκάυστων
_egkáuston_), denoting a special type of purple ink used by Roman emperors
in signatures.  Middle English _inke_ ~ _enke_ are reportedly based on Old
French _enque_.  What about the Dutch, Afrikaans and W. Frisian words,
though?  Are they derived from French also?

As for the donor words (1) _encau(s)tum_ and (2) _tīncta_ on which some
Germanic words for "ink" are based, what is of primary relevance: (a) that
(1) follows the route of known early French influences (on the Low Countries
and Britain), or (b) that (1) is used in areas once under Roman occupation
while the medieval loan (2) and native words (_blak_, etc.) are used in
areas that defied or evaded Roman occupation?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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