LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.17 (03) [E]

Wed Nov 17 17:52:35 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Dan Prohaska <danielprohaska at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Bargy and Forth Dialects.

>>From: Tom Carty <cartyweb at hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Bargy and Forth Dialects.

>>Has anyone any information on the dialects of Forth and Bargy in Co.
>>Wexford, Ireland?

Hi Tom,

I've got an article on "The Dialects of Forth and Bargy - a lost Middle
English dialect"

The problem is I haven't got it here with me in Switserland, but in my
Vienna place. I'll be in Vienna weekend after next - so I can check for you
then if you're still interested.

As far as memory serves I think the article was on some examples written
down in the early 18th or 19th century about a colonial dialect of Middle
English that survived a long time surrounded by Irish speakers.

Phonologically it shows features common to the older conservative dialects
of the Pale, but the vowel system is very much Middle English and shows no
signs of the Great Vowel Shift, so:

ME /i:/ = FB /i:/ <ee>;
ME /e:/ and /E:/ appear to have remained distinct, also
ME /o:/ and /O:/
ME /a:/ does not appear to have been raised and is spelt <aa>.

The dialects show initial voicing of ME /f/ and /s/ as in south western and
Kentish ME dialects.

There was an abundance of Irish loan words, but that's just about all I can
remember. I'll check next week and get back to you about it.

All the best,
Dan

----------

From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Language Varieties

Ron,

Thanks for the link on Yola.

It should also be mentioned that there was another Old English variant
spoken in Ireland, in Fingal (north of Dublin) until the latter part of the
nineteenth century. I do not know what the relationship between Yola and
Fingalian was: whether they developed separately from Old English implants
in the two areas in the twelfth century or (more likely I suspect), they
were unrelated with Fingalian being brought by later English settlers
(possibly from Bristol, to which Dublin and its environs was given in the
Middle Ages) in the area of English authority known as "the Pale". In any
case, a Bristolian nativity for Fingalian would mean it shared many
characteristics with Yola, which also developed from (slightly more
southerly) Wessex variants. Unfortunately there is little or no information
available for Fingalian, (except that it sounded 'a bit like Yola' and died
out in the nineteenth century).

I am not sure where the insistence on "Manx and Flemish" comes in, however.
I cannot speak for Flemish but I do not see any Manx lexical borrowings or
phonemic characteristics in Yola, unless the writer is presuming that the
parish was so inward-looking that its supposed Irish lexicon was obtained
through Manx, via fishing contacts (impossible because Manx does not use the
Irish dimunitive [-i:n] which is so important to word formation in Yola).
There is a touching anecdote about a woman from Bargy who collapsed and wept
when she walked outside the parish one day, for she had not realised or
conceived that there was another world, and was overwhelmed by the extent of
what she saw.

Irish influence comes in surprising places. The cluster [st] regularly
receives a /theta/ intrusion, which seems characteristic of Hiberno-English
and is usually suspected to be from Irish, even though latter developments
in Irish robbed that language of /theta/, replacing it with /h/ - hence
_máthair_ 'mother' is ['ma:her], and hence the usage [hink] in northern
dialects of Hiberno-English (which learnt their English later on) and in
Scots, which carries the trend over from Gaelic. In Yola the cluster
[stheta] even occurs at the end of words, which is unexpected (see _priesth_
for _priest_).

There seems to be an interesting hypercorrection from Irish involved in
pronouncing words that in English end in _-ing_ (e.g. 'stocking') as if they
end in the Irish dimunitive [-i:n], hence _stuckeen_, _shilleen_. A similar
phenomenon occurs with the assimilation of Irish diminutive [-u:n] in words
like _sparroon_ for 'sparrow'. The borrowing of _caules_ for _horses_ < Ir.
_capall_ is interesting because Irish used a number of different words to
represent different sorts of horse, e.g., _each_, _capall_, etc. The form is
also interesting because it demonstrates determined assimilation of _capall_
to the Yola sound system, indicating it is a very old loan indeed from Ir.
_capall_ > _caball_ > Y. _cabhall_ [kau'el] > Y. _caul_. That is if it _is_
a borrowing from Irish.

Particularly interesting is the use of _wil na_ (c.f. Scots _will nae_) for
'won't'. This is conspicuously not a Westcountry construction, although I
cannot vouch for its existence or absence in Old English. The form _gae_ for
'give' is also used, and reminiscient of Scots rather than Westcountry
English. I understand that Yola preserved a very ancient system of personal
pronouns which, for 'I' at least from memory, went something like:

ich / cham / chamnt - I / am / I am not

It does not help that the Yola samples use a difficult to decipher
orthography. For instance, does _gry_ 'grey' mean [grai] or [groi] or
[gri:], or none of the above? What are we to make of striking vowel
combinations such as _keouw_ ~ _keow_ 'cow'? (I can imagine some of these as
a Cornishman, but general readers must be lost.) As far as I can tell, the
likes of _caake_ 'cake' and _cooat_ 'coat' do not represent [ke.e:k] and
[ko.o:t] as suggested by the spelling but rather [ke.ik] and [ko:.it] as in
Cornish English, although I find it odd that Yola has voicing on [f]
(_vather_ and _zong_) but not on words beginning with [k] as in _caake_
which one might expect to be [ke.ig] or [ge.ik] or [kje.ig] or [gje.ig] as
in Cornish English and Westcountry English today. The problem with /ei/ as
in _tuesdei_ 'Tuesday' and what sound it is supposed to represent is
particularly troublesome. The word 'high' is glossed as both _heighe_
?[he.i:] and _hia_ in the text.

I strongly recommend list members interested in Yola to seek out the full
text of A Yola Zong, which recounts most delightfully - in Yola - a hurling
game in the parish. There is also a just as revealing excerpt of a pub fight
recorded in Yola. Both are available (I think, I may have to be corrected
here) in Ó Muirithe, Diarmuid. English as We Speak it in Ireland or Ó
Muirithe, Diarmuid. Words We Use.

Just a few thoughts. Probably all wrong!

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks a lot, Críostóir!

I do have the text of the song on file, but, going by your description, I
assume it is a fragment only.

Please find it below, followed by a description.

I find initial pre-vocalic /z-/ in place of /s-/ particularly interesting,
considering it coincides with Low Fanconian, Lowlands Saxon (Low German) and
most German dialects.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

***

   A Yola Zong

   Fade teil thee zo lournagh, co Joane, zo knagge?
   Th’ weithest all curcagh, wafur, an cornee.
   Lidge w’ouse an a milagh, tis gaay an louthee:
   Huck nigher; y’art scuddeen; fartoo zo hachee?

   Well, gosp, c’hull be zeid; mot thee fartoo, an fade;
   Ha deight ouse var gabble, ee zin go t’glade.
   Ch’am a stouk, an a donel; wou’ll leigh out ee dey.
   Th’ valler w’speen here, th’ lass ee chourch-hey.

   Yerstey w’had a baree, gist ing oor hoane,
   Aar gentrize ware bibbern, aamzil cou no stoane.
   Yith Muzleare had be hole, t’was mee Tommeen,
   At by mizluck was ee-pit t’drive in.

   Joud an moud vrem earchee ete was ee Lough.
   Zitch vaperreen, an shimmereen, fan ee-daf ee aar scoth!
   Zitch blakeen, an blayeen, fan ee ball was ee-drowe!
   Chote well aar aim was t’yie ouz n’eer a blowe.

***

   An Old Song

   What ails you so melancholy, quoth John, so cross?
   You seem all snappish, uneasy, and fretful.
   Lie with us on the clover, ’tis fair and sheltered:
   Come nearer; you’re rubbing your back; why so ill tempered?

   Well, gossip, it shall be told; you ask me what ails me, and for what;
   You have put us in talk, ’till the sun goes to set.
   I am a fool and a dunce; we’ll idle out the day.
   The more we spend here, the less in the churchyard.

   Yesterday we had a goal just in our hand.
   Their gentry were quaking, themselves could not stand.
   If Good-for-little had been buried, it had been my Tommy,
   Who by misluck was placed to drive in.

   Throngs and crowds from each quarter were at the Lough;
   Such vapouring and glittering when stript in their shirts!
   Such bawling and shouting, when the ball was thrown!
   I saw their intent was to give us ne’er a stroke.

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