LL-L "Phonology" 2004.11.23 (03) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.NOV.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.11.22 (06) [E/LS]

> Henry Pijffers:
>
> Ingmar schreev:

> > Sal et so können waesen at de Twenten rr segget waor at Nederlandsch
> > svarabakti hef.
>  >
> >Absoluyt nit. Laot my nu mear vuyr et Tweants spraekken he ;)

>>>>> Dat sae ik jao sölf ok al, kerl. ;->
Maor as ik mene at ik der wat ovver te seggen hebbe sa'k et sekers neet
laoten.
(Ingmar)

> > Ned. dorrep = Tw. dorrp = Went. darp.
>  >
> Ik gebruke in dorp mear eynen seer kleanen r.

>>>>> Juyst. Ik hebbe _rr_ eschreven ümme te laoten sene at der ene r-klanke
wörd
uut esproken hyr. Enkle r is stum, so as in _hard_ [hAt], düble rr neet
_harrk_ [hArk].
Maor dat mot natuyrlik neet so eschreven worden normaal, dit bünt allenig
maor vörbelde
ümme de uutsprake duydelik te maken, begripste wal? (Ingmar)

> > Ik bün der sekers van at ok de Tükkers _swart_ [svAt'] en _hart_ [hAt']
> > segget, sunder R.  Ned. zwart = Tw. swa(r)t = Went. swo(r)t.
> >
> Jao, daet is korrekt, in swart (met /z/ aoverigens) en hart(e) is der
> geynen r te höyren.

>>>>>Büste daor wal seker van, dat et [zvat'] is met z, en neet [svat'] met
s?
In alle oostnederlandsche nedersaksische dialekte sek men dacht ik [s] as de
Ned. "z" vör konsonanten steet, düs [svIl] "zwil" aeven good as  ["slaN@]
"slange".
Maor wel wet is dat anders in Ryssen en ümmegaevinge? (Ingmar)

> > Et lik mij to at Henry Pyffers wisse et best sol waeten bo dat in Twente
> > esekt word, he kümp daor jao her.
> >
> Daet lik my ok wal jao :)

>>>>>Jao myn jung, dat is wal duydelik! ;-)

>> > Ingmar may well be right in postulating that your pronunciation [dorp]
is
> > underlyingly /dor at p/.
>  >
> That it is definitely not. Tuekkers don't unsert schwa's where the Dutch
do.
>
>>>>>Dat sek Ron (en ikke) ok neet: he sae dat der schwa under lig,
neet daste et ok so hoyren saste...
Kyk, dat mot wal, anders kaste et verschel neet verklaren tüschen 'park' met
uut esproken r, en 'part' sunder r. Ander sol et beide met r of beide sunder
r
ewest waen... So warkt dat nou eenmaal met taal... (Ingmar)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Henry wrote ("Language varieties"):

> Yes, thoese words are without -r. But an r is often inserted if the next
> word starts with a vowel.

It sounds like your dialect has "liason" then, like English, something not
very common in Lowlands Saxon (Low German).

I wrote ("Language varieties") about "overlength":

>  bruud [bru(:)t] 'bride'
>  bruyd' [bry:.d] (< bruyde) 'brides'

In the case of /d/ in overlength, it is dropped in quite a few dialects,
thus:

bruud [bru(:)t] 'bride'
bruyd' [bry:.] (< bruyde) 'brides'  (often spelled <bru>, <bruu>, <brö>,
    <Brüü>, <Brü>, etc.)

However, the /d/ is changed to /j/ or is deleted even in some dialects that
have preserved the _-e_; thus:

bruud [bru(:)t] 'bride'
bruyde [bry:(j)e] 'brides' (often spelled <brue>, <bröe>, <Brüe>, etc.)

Likewise:
luyd' ~ luyde [bry:(j)e] 'people', 'folks'
   (often spelled <bru>, <bruu>, <brö>, <Brüü>, <Brü>, <brue>, <bröe>,
   <Brüe>, etc.)

A similar thing must have applied in Dutch at one time, considering examples
such as _lui_ 'people', 'folks'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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