LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.10.04 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 04.OCT.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language Contacts
>
> I understand that there are dialectal differences. How
> easy is it, as a Scot, to spot a Londoner for example
> (and would a Londoner sign London as 'loud'), and are
> they distinctive from someone from Brighton, say, (and
> would someone from Brighton sign Brighton as
> 'expensive') or would you have to go further afield to
> the South-West or further north to spot a difference?

I think someone from Brighton would sign it as 'expensive', probably, since
it's such a widely-known sign. You understand that, as I explained, this
isn't the same thing as signing 'expensive' - the lack of facial expression
to indicate actual expensiveness would show that the sign was being used to
indicate the town.

Dialectical differences certainly start causing problems after a distance of
about 50 miles or so. However, sign language being more iconic than spoken
languages, this is not a great problem for experienced signers.

Also, with signers being much thinner on the ground than hearing people,
they're generally prepared to travel much further for social gatherings than
hearing people, and tend to become familiar with many different dialects.

A discussion between six deaf students on the BBC programme "See Hear" last
Saturday resulted in the conclusion that they would like some sort of
standardisation for the technical signs that get invented in different
universities, but were not interested in the standardisation of BSL as a
whole.

> Do the dialectal differences relate at all to spoken
> English (or Scots) dialect differences, as in grammar
> differences or are they completely unrelated?

Not at all, except possibly at the language interfaces - fingerspelling and
mouth patterns - that I was describing before.

> When a non-native speaker is speaking English can you
> see from lip-reading that they're a non-native
> speaker?

This depends entirely on the skill of the lipreader. I can, if I really want
to, see some accent differences in speakers, but lipreading is mostly an
exercise in deriving meaning by combining contextual information with sparse
linguistic information and accents are only marginally relevant. This
question is the odd one out here - it has nothing to do with BSL  :)

> Would you consider BSL to be a Germanic (or even
> English/Scots) dialect, or would it have to be
> classified in a completely different way?

It's not Germanic at all. It could be briefly characteristed as
topic-comment syntax, adjectives most commonly following the noun, optional
plural forms expressed by repetition, tense mostly expressed lexically, verb
aspect and mood by inflection, shape-based classifier system for relating
nouns to verbs. Due to the medium of expression it's also more iconic and
makes heavier use of metaphor than oral languages. Also because of the
medium, there are some features that don't occur (much?) in oral languages,
such as proforms and simultaneity.

The vocabulary is mostly distinct from English or any other oral language.

> Cheers in advance, and say hello to Scotland from me -
> long time since I was last there...

I phoned Scotland and said hello  :)

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Grietje MENGER <grietje at menger.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.10.03 (14) [E]

> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language Contacts
>
[snip]
> I understand that there are dialectal differences. How
> easy is it, as a Scot, to spot a Londoner for example
> (and would a Londoner sign London as 'loud'), and are
> they distinctive from someone from Brighton, say, (and
> would someone from Brighton sign Brighton as
> 'expensive') or would you have to go further afield to
> the South-West or further north to spot a difference?

Funny you should say that, Gary, in Dutch sign language (which incidentally
has 5 dialects, based on the 5 boarding schools for deaf children), the sign
for "Amsterdam" is crossing your index fingers three times (one tapping the
other) going downward. This is akin to the pilons(?) you find everywhere in
Amsterdam which have the three crosses sign on and that comes from the City
heraldy.
I've heard tell that "foreigners" sign "Amsterdam" as emptying a syringe in
the crook of your arm. Don't need to explain that one, I reckon.

Something similar with Russia, which used to be signed as right fist high -
reference to the communist era. The Russians are keen to make a different
sign, if I remember correctly the sign for bear, to stand for Russia.

Grietje Menger
Scotland

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