LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.10.05 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 05.OCT.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

> From: Grietje MENGER <grietje at menger.fsnet.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.10.03 (14) [E]
>
> Funny you should say that, Gary, in Dutch sign language (which
incidentally
> has 5 dialects, based on the 5 boarding schools for deaf children), the
sign
> for "Amsterdam" is crossing your index fingers three times (one tapping
the
> other) going downward. This is akin to the pilons(?) you find everywhere
in
> Amsterdam which have the three crosses sign on and that comes from the
City
> heraldy.

This is a bit hard for me to pronounce as crossed fingers aren't really used
in BSL (the one exception is the sign for 'hope' - which could be thought of
as just as much a gesture as a sign - it's one of those words which refuses
to accept any inflections).

Still, I'm always interested in being able to sign the names of towns, so I
wonder if you could describe the hand orientation in this sign, ie which way
do the fingers point? Thanks!

> I've heard tell that "foreigners" sign "Amsterdam" as emptying a syringe
in
> the crook of your arm. Don't need to explain that one, I reckon.

This sort of thing is dying out in BSL, mostly to be replaced by whatever
sign is used in the foreign sign language for something from their culture.
So the Chinese are no longer slitty-eyed, instead the Chinese Sign Language
sign for 'Chinese' is used in BSL. However, researchers questioned a group
of Chinese deaf people on whether they found the "slitty-eyed' sign
offensive. The Chinese said no, especially considering that their sign for
"Westerner" was "round-eyed"  :)

BSL signs where the foreign sign is now normally used in place of the
original BSL sign are Russia, China, Japan, Finland, Estonia, Ireland, Spain
(I think), Australia, Dublin, New York &c. Others, such as America, Denmark,
Norway and Sweden seem to have been in use from long before political
correctness was a consideration.

"Germany" is a strange case. The German Sign Language (DSL) sign for it
indicates a hat with a spike. This has also been used as the BSL sign for
"Germany" since long before political correctness was such an issue. Now
that we're more politically correct, BSLers have started to simply sign "G"
for "Germany", because they're worried that the spikey hat might somehow be
unacceptable! I hope I'm right in thinking that this is more of a
classroom/examination board sign than something native signers would use.

The BSL sign for "Jewish" indicates a beard. British Jews have found this
unacceptable because it excludes Jewish women. So the sign is gradually
being replaced by a sign indicating a menorah, but in my experience not many
people are acquainted with this at the moment.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

> From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.10.04 (07) [E]
>
> To: Sandy en Grietje
> Subject: Language Varieties
> From: Andrys Onsman
>
>  From my brother (ex-actor in the Theatre of the Deaf in Australia and
> demon signer at football matches):
>
> "My understanding is that the open side of the finger drawn from left to
> right followed by a downward flicking motion at the end was an indigenous
> sign brought to Britain at a conference about 1990 (ie the Russians
> attending the conference used it as the sign for "where we're from"). I

That's interesting and could do with more research!

> As an illustration of the role of colour in signing, in the early 80s
Auslan
> was in transition from using the old hands on hips sign (as if you're
about
> to do some cossack dancing) to a combo of red (crooked index finger
pulling
> down lower lip - ie the letter R plus the red of the gums) and the power
> salute of the closed fist. But I believe a different sign has been adopted
> since.

I really don't think there's an R component in this. In BSL in the past,
colours were indicated by pointing to something of that colour on the body.
Thus, the finger was hooked to indicate the lower lip for "red" to
distinguish it from pointing at the teeth for "white". Welsh signing seems
to me to have the purest form of this original BSL colour system:

red - lower lip
white - teeth
pink - lips and teeth (or in the south of England "bright cheek")
brown - skin on back of hand
black - not sure (fist drawn down side of face is this indicating black
hair, say, beard, sideburns or stubble?)
blue - veins in wrist
green - snot (I've only seen schoolboys signing this!)
yellow - pus coming from ear (this was once a familiar idea to children in
schools for the deaf)

This may once have been a consistent system but people are too genteel for
these forms of green and yellow nowadays, so that the modern colour system
is notorious for dialectical differences as people found other ways of
signing these, but green and yellow are the main victims, hence "green"
being signed as some variant of "grass" &c.

"Orange" was always the same sign as for the fruit, as far as I know.

> Another example: the old Australian sign for USA was a hand waggled under
> the chin to resemble the beard of Uncle Sam. It wasn't until the 60s that
it
> was realised that this action constituted the American sign for "rubbish".
> Australians asking "Where are you from?" were somewhat taken aback to be
> told by Deaf American tourists that they were "rubbish". When Auslan was
> codified in the 70s/80s it adopted a new sign of interlocking the fingers
> and moving them in a circular motion to represent the United States."

Have you heard the rumour that Americans sign this differently since 9/11?
Apparently some Americans want the thumbs to be kept down until Ground Zero
is rebuilt. I can't decide whether this is highly affected or whether
there's more to it than I understand.

(Note that Auslan and BSL are related languages, hence my sign for 'red'
being the same as Andrys's brother's).

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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