LL-L "Literature" 2004.10.10 (04) [A/E/German/Yiddish]

Sun Oct 10 19:55:11 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2004.10.09 (08) [E/LS/German/Yiddish]

Beste Ingmar en Ron,

Onderwerp: Literature.

Hiermee my offering

LITTEKENS

Die letsels in my lewe is
maar tekens van bestaan
diep in my siel gekerf

Soos met 'n oue eikeboom
'n naam gekrap deur jonge hande
wat stamsaam hoër groei

so-ook het my wonde my
die jare en die daë deur
tot op die laaste vergesel

Maar soos ek die littekens sien
weet ek die kerwer lê al diep
en die boom bly staan.

Die Uwe,
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2004.10.09 (08) [E/LS/German/Yiddish]

Beste Ingmar en Ron,

Subject: LL-L "Literature"

Nou val dit my eers by hoe handig 'n taalvergelykende stapel die draad
eintlik is, sinds dit die werk van net een of twee, en oor 'n hele skakering
dialekte gaan.

Maar Ingmar, Ron, elke stuk van die begin af, Ingmar se gedig, nê, het ek
met plesier deurgelees, plek-plek deurgesukkel, en geskraap, met inagneming
van my ou blikbrein se beperke gehue. Ek sou seer ieder dit op blad
uitgedruk het, het ek net geweet hoe hy sou aanwas.

Ron, ek weet ek pla jou al genoeg met 'n Friese ballade, maar is dit
moontlik om die draad se gedigte in gesnoeide formaat in een brief byeen te
bring? Ek sal hom op blad sit en toe eers skraap.

> Oh and I was afraid that people would confuse Drenthish LS "lieksteeën /
> liksteeën" with Standard Dutch 'liksteen' i.e. salt licking stone for
cattle
> etc.!

Tussen hakies: We call the Nederlands 'liksteen'  a 'lekblok', & mostly
these days it is a mix of molasses, salt, urea & other yummy stuff. The
cattle lick it, but the antelope just line up & bite off chunks, & stroll
away like kids chewing toffee. You should just see their glossy coats &
plump sides!

Groete,
Mark

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2004.10.09 (08) [E/LS/German/Yiddish]

Reinhard, I'm impressed (once more) to see you translated my poem in
(Eastern) Yiddish.
Here in the Netherlands a different variety of Yiddish was spoken, Western
Yiddish, as in most part of Germany
and Western Europe, but I suppose it has entirely died out. Even before WW
II most Jews in Western Europe
had been 'assimilating' to the official languages of the country they lived,
I think.

BTW would E-Yidd "tromen" for scars be derived from 'Traumen' traumas or
isit from Hebrew or Aramaic?

I'm happy with the High German Uebersetzung as well!
Now I only need a Frisian and Scandinavian version to produce my own
Middelsprake translation.
That would save me a lot of puzzling in dictionaries ;->   (Ingmar)

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2004.10.09 (06) [E/LS]

> From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
> Subject: Literature
>
> Thanks, Ingmar.
>
>> BTW Did you know the word 'liekstee' or 'likstee' for scar? I believe
>> it's
>> typically Drenthish.
>
> At first glance I thought it meant 'gravestone' (*_lijkenstenen_)!  ;-)
> However, now that I know it it makes sense: literally "body places."
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
Hello,
We have the word "liksme"(V) for "litteken"(D).
ne skribble(V) = een schram(D) = a scratch(E)

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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From: Franz Firla <f.firla at web.de>
Subject: Narbengedicht

Von diesem Gedicht war ich sehr beeindruckt, vielleicht weil ich auch schon
eine etwas ältere Eiche bin.
Und ich fragte mich, wie es wohl in unserem Mölmsch Platt klingen müßte.
Mit dem Rhythmus bin ich nicht so zufrieden, aber ich stelle es trotzdem
vor. Und danke für die "Narben"!

Lienteike

Lienteike in minnem Leewe ssind
de Teike van minnem Bestohn,
deep i'chekerw in minne Sseal.

Ees beim aule Eikeboum
en Nahm,  i'kratzt van jonge Hain,
ös met öm in de Höah chewaasse.

Ssoa ssind die aule Wounde,
die ick döar Joahr un Daach mutt draage,
mei bös am Ein chebliewe.

Merr wenn ick nou de Teiken leas,
weit ick, dä Kerwer ös all doat,
merr steiht däm Boum noh ömmer do!

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Literature

Mark (hierbo):

> Hiermee my offering

Dis uitstekend, Mark! Knap gedaan!  Ek kan se, dat Jy Ingmar se gedig goed
en versigtig gelees het.

Folks, for you who did not already know, Mark's translation of Ingmar's poem
is in Afrikaans, and wonderfully done, too.

> Ron, ek weet ek pla jou al genoeg met 'n Friese ballade, maar is dit
> moontlik om die draad se gedigte in gesnoeide formaat in een brief byeen
> te
> bring? Ek sal hom op blad sit en toe eers skraap.

Ja, ja, jonge man.  Moenie ongeduldig wees nie!  Ek wag nog vir 'n bietjie
inligting.

Ingmar,

As for "West Yiddish," please see my comment under "Language varieties."

> BTW would E-Yidd "tromen" for scars be derived from 'Traumen' traumas or
> isit from Hebrew or Aramaic?

Your encoding does not seem to show all the necessary characters, leaves the
"s hachek" ("s" with a "check mark") for "sh" out (also some of the Hebrew
character).  The word is _shtromen_ and seems to be of Germanic origin.
_Shrammen_ would also be possible, I
believe.

Here the same Yiddish version with different spelling, a Dutch-based one:

   SJTRÒMMEN

   's zènnen die sjtròmmen foen main lèbm
   markierte sjtèln nòr òif main kieèm
   aráinghesjnitst in maine nèffesj tief

   òt glaich dem dèmb-bèjml dem altn
   foen a joenge hant aráingheritst a nòmmen
   iz mit aròifghewaksn

   òt azòi hobm die woendn mier die altn
   wòs ich dòrch jòr oen tòg hòb mítghenoemmen
   mich ghoet balèit tsoem sòf

   az ich itst lèz die sèmmonnim dò wais ich
   der sjnitser iz foen lang on tòit
   nòch sjtèiendik der bòim

Franz, die Übersetzung gefällt mir sehr, sehr gut.  Am Rhythmus muss man
vielleicht noch etwas arbeiten.

Folks, Franz translated Ingmar's poem into the Low Franconian dialect of
Mölm/Mülheim upon Ruhr, Germany, near the borders with the Netherlands and
Belgium.  The dialect is rather close to Limburgish, it seems, if it ought
not actually typologically be considered Limburgish.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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