LL-L "Cultural contacts" 2004.10.17 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 17.OCT.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: Multicultural societies

I was at an Apics congres in San Diego last week, and coming from a
multi-cultural environment (Belgium) I tried to learn a bit about
Anglo-Saxon - Hispanic relationships.

The problem started already in Brussels at the check-in:
my luggage got a orange ticket for "transfer without customs control in
Atlanta". I asked the girl why she did that, since I always have to pass
customs control with the luggage in Atlanta. She just thought San Diego was
in South America, and that I had just an Atlanta stop in transit.

After 3.5 days of conference attendance I took halve a day off for visiting
Mexico with the trolley. The orange line passes just in front of the hotel
(the Marriott at the Conference Center), and one has to switch to the blue
line. There is a big transfer station in the South East, but the Marriott
information desk strongly advised me to switch at the America Plaza in the
North for safety reasons. Checking further I learned the station in the East
(12th & Imperial transfer station) is close to an area rather inhabitated by
Mexicans, and Anglo-Saxons stay away from those streets. Strange advice
though for being followed by people just traveling to Mexico.

Safety is a big concern for US Anglo-Saxons people. Many people, I talked
with at the conference, would like terribly hard to visit Western Europe,
but they are too much afraid to do so because of safety isues. I don't
understand why they cannot see the differences between the streets in
Antwerp and the streets in Bagdad. But I guess that is a West-European view.
And after all it may be a welcomed opportunity for US companies to save on
business travel costs.

Taking the trolley South to San Ysidro (at the border) I actually saw more
(virtually only) Southern looking people in the streets. Schools had Spanish
names. To my big surprise the kids of (at least) some of the these schools
were wearing uniforms (blue and white), which underlines the impression
these schools have some standard at least.

I was told I had to pass the border and to continue my journey with a bus at
the Mexican side. I already found a little bus at the US side, got a return
ticket for 3 USD (with the help of some, poorly English speaking, Mexican
immigrants who pass the border for a meal and buying their drugs), passed
the border in that bus without border controll - the bus was using a service
way -, and was dropped close to the big wheel, North of Ave Revolucion. I'm
still not sure whether I have been legally in Mexico or not. People on the
little bus told me I should not care, it was more important to know one was
sure to be able to reenter in the US.

To may big surprise, except for people harrassing visitors in the street for
buying tickets for some shows with local girls, virtually nobody spook
English. I had an extensive meal with good Mexican food for 5 USD on the
main street. Bought some post cards, but could not find stamps. I finally
was adviced to go to the Post Office (10 blocks to the South of the big
wheel, and 2 further blocks to the East). So I did. I had to queue for
abouth 50 minutes with just 4 people before me in the row. Two
Indian-looking old ladies had a very long discussion with the (only) lady at
the desk, and finally left, clearly unsatisfied. Two gentlemen had very
extensive paperwork to be delt with. I finally got my post stamps. Actually
the girl got a friendly face when she learned it was mail for Belgica. That
girl was just speaking Spanish only, but she understood my Belgian English.
I could pay in USD but got Mexican coins in return.

My surprise: while some many people over here talking English for business,
how to explain people in Tijuana are so reluctant to speak English? (Except
for the many drug stores and the shows with local beauties)

When returning I was kicked out of the bus just at the US border. I had to
queue for about 20 minutes at US border control. My Atlanta access allowance
was still valid: no more photographing nor renewed finger printing, just
customs controll (for pharmaceutical drugs I guess). And back on the trolley
towards the Anglo-Saxon quarters.

After all, it is impossible to compare mixed towns as Brussels with San
Diego.

Regards,

Roger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Cultural contacts

Roger,

Thanks for sharing your impressions.

My experiences in the same area have a somewhat larger range.  I found that
many people in Tijuana *can't* speak English very well, if at all,
especially those that migrated there (an economically desirable area) from
farther south, from poorer areas where there are fewer educational
opportunities and where interactions with foreigners are rare (because they
are not areas "blessed" with tourism).  I have watched Mexicans deliberately
avoiding English, and I have bumped into others that *wanted* to speak
English even to foreigners who speak Spanish, even locals that do not run
Tourism-oriented businesses.

Please bear in mind that a very high percentage of people in (Upper)
California (on the U.S. side) study Spanish in school and have at least some
rudimentary Spanish proficiency.  I have witnessed pretty much everything
between no Spanish and very good Spanish on their part, also among the young
people that go to get drunk (out of their minds) in Tijuana on weekend (and
then get arrested for public drunkenness on the U.S. side) because they
would be under-age drinkers in the U.S, but are not so in the Mexican state
of Baja (Lower) California.  So, residents of Tijuana (and Mexicali and
other cities just on the Mexican side of the border) are not unjustifiably
waiting for the "Gringos" to use at least rudimentary Spanish, and I think
they have every right to do so.  When needing to do so, many a "Gringo" or
"Gringa" can manage in a bit of Spanish.  Those with more confidence will
roam around the many side-alley markets (which I love), and many of them do
pretty well in Spanish.

Yes, there are business establishments on the seedy side in border towns --
on *both* sides -- and the type of people associated with them -- both
personnel and customers.  On the whole, though, I feel that Tijuana and
Mexicali are given a bad rap, often by more snobbish people.  I found that
average residents of these cities conduct themselves with much dignity and
are very often friendly and helpful if approached in a non-obnoxious,
respectful and non-patronizing manner and if they feel that a foreign
visitor *tries* to adapt at least a bit.  Respect is not something you can
put on; it is something you *have*, and if you have it it's very easy to
pick up and will determine the tone of an interaction.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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