LL-L "Divination" 2004.10.25 (02) [E/Luxembourgish]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 25.OCT.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Dave Singleton <davidsin at pt.lu>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.23 (01) [E,Lu]

> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.22 (04) [E]
>
> >>>>>Interesting theory,  Dutch _wichel_  ["WIx at l] as metathesis from
> >>>>>_wilg_
> ["WIl at x] = willow, when we look at the pronunciation only the
> positions of [x] and [l] have to be changed.
> But, wichelen and wichelarij are predominantly used in _sterrenwichelen_
> ["stEr@~WIx at l@] and _sterrenwichelarij_ ["stEr@~WIx at la:'rEi] somewhat
> mockingly for Astrology. And the relation between the stars (sterren) and
> the willows (wilgen) seems a bit far-fetched to me.
> But maybe there's a perfectly well explanation... (Ingmar)
>
> > From: R. F. Hahn :
> >
> > Hi, Ingmar, folks!
> >
> > > There are also Dutch  _wichelen_ ["WIx at l@] soothsay , _wichelarij_
> > > ["WIx at la:rEi] soothsaying/augury, and I was told that my
> great-grandmother
> > > knew how to look for things or water with her  _wichelroede_
> ["WIx at lrud@]
> > > i.e. divining-rod. I think this was a catapult like, forked shaped
> > > piece
> > of
> > > wood.
> > > Maybe those _wichel_words  are from the same root as _wikken/wikker_?
> >
> > I wonder.
> >
> > The activity is called "dowsing" in English (from the verb "to dowse"),
> and
> > the instrument is a "dowsing rod" or a "divining rod."   In German, the
> > instrument is a _Wünschelrute_, and the diviner or geomancer, the
> "dowser,"
> > who uses it is a _Wünschelrutengänger_ or just _Rutengänger_
> ("rod-walker").
> >
> > The derivation of "dowse" (first found in writing in 1691: "Not of the
> > nature of the deusing-rod, or virgula divina, able to discover mines of
> gold
> > and silver.") appears to be unknown, also that of _Wünschel..._.
> >
> > I vaguely remember hearing something like *_wichel-ruut_ ['vICl=ru:t] in
> > Lowlands Saxon (Low German) also.  My automatic assumption is that this
> > means literally "willow rod," since in our dialects 'willow' is _wichel_
> > ['vICl=].
> >
> >  Apparently, this word has undergone metathesis of /l/ and /g/; cf.
> > Dutch
> > _wilg_ (< Middle Dutch _wilge_), Afrikaans _wilgerboom_ and English
> _willow_
> > (< Old English _weliƽ_; cf. Frisian _wylch_, _wil(l)ig_).  Old Saxon has
> > _wilgia_, and Middle Saxon and a few archaic Modern dialects have
> > _wilge_.
> > So, _wilge_ developed into _wigel_ and then into (/wigl/) _wichel_
> > (considering that syllable-final /g/ is fricativized, as in Frisian).
> >
> > What is the word for "willow" in *your* dialect?
> >
> > I'm not categorically saying that _wichelroede_ (and the possibly
> > derived
> > verb _wichelen_) has anything to do with willows.  However, I am tempted
> to
> > consider this as a possibility, given that dowsers tend to prefer rods
> > cut
> > from willows, the "water-seeking" trees.
> >
> > Kumpelmenten,
> > Reinhard/Ron
>
> ----------
>
> From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.22 (04) [E]
>
> >>However, I am tempted to consider this as a possibility, given that
> dowsers tend to prefer rods cut
> from willows, the "water-seeking" trees.<<
>
> I like the logic but unfortunately dowsing rods are usually cut from the
> hazel.
>
> When I lived in North Wales I met the resident County Council dowser sent
> out to locate the drains under the concrete of a yard, which was to be
> built on. HIs rods were certainly all hazel. He also lcoated the drains
> very quickly and easily.
>
> I have a friend here who uses an old bent coat hanger ... with great
> success!
>
> Heather

Moiën alleguer, ech hunn e fröe, as et meichleg dat d'ausdrék "Witch Hazel"
hudd hei eppes mat z'dinn ? Ech maachen dat mëmmlech "Divining" och mam zwée
stéck stahl draat -- geet ganz wonnerbär fir ënnergrund wasser ze fannen----
awwer ech weess dat d'original "draat" vun d'nussbeem  gehuel wahr, wéi
gesuet wahr e "lang beenech upsilon" mam kuerz stang.

Dave Singleton

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================