LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.01 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Mathieu. van Woerkom <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.ru.nl>
Subject: "Etymology"

Yves wrote:

> i can give a few words Flemish that come into French
> - mannequin:manneken of mannekijn small puppet(with new designed
> clothes)
> used by the tailors in Brugge sended by diligence to the nobles in
> France(11
> century)-
> - fauteuil:vouwzetel
> - boullevard:bouwwerk

As far as I know, French _boulevard_ comes form Dutch _bolwerk_; the
system of canals around the city for protection, the city-side of which
usually lies a bit higher than the surounding (rural) area.

Examples:
- http://www.club65dokkum.nl/Dokkum/bolwerk%201lowres.jpg
- http://www.kfheinfonds.nl/images/Bolwerk.jpg
- http://dongeradeel.castmanage.nl/files/68/bolwerk1.jpg
- http://www.lievehemel.nl/thv03zzeebolwerk59.jpg

Regards,
Mathieu

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From: klaus schmirler <KSchmir at online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.01 (12) [E]

> From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>

> And don't forget "sjambok", so-called because it isn't a "bok" at all.

So is "sham" another loan? The shorter Oxford knows of no
mention of verb, noun or adjective before the late 17th century.

klaus schmirler

new here. swabian of k.u.k extraction actually only
listening in..

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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Etymology

I disagree with David Barrow and Henno about "forlorn" as in "forlorn hope".
"Forlorn" is an E word to which the Du word "verloren" was assimilated. The
word actually took on a new metaphorical sense from the Du and is now only
used in that way. I actually though of including this example in the "Hals-
und Beinbruch" strand but didn't want to invite the arguments which I felt
might be raised against it.

Yves wrote:
> i can give a few words Flemish that come into French
- fauteuil:vouwzetel - boullevard:bouwwerk<

"Boulevard", like E "bulwark", is actually from MDu "bolwerc" (Mod Du
"bolwerk"). The derivation of this "bol" (E "plank" or something similar)
seems to be uncertain but nothing to do with "bouw". Is the sense "avenue"
from the fact that the boulevards of Paris were built on the sites of the
old fortifications or something else?

Hachette's "Le Dictionnaire du Francais" prefers "fauteuil" from Frankish
"faldistol". BTW this is quite cheap in paperback. Not specifically an
etymological dictionary but useful for quick reference on relationships
between Fr and Lowlands words. The definitions are also clear and accessible
even with my indifferent French.

Ron: Thanks for clarifying your views on etymologists. You seem to be saying
that, to adapt Dr Johnson's phrase, the sub-set you are referring to are
potentially "harmful drudges"! I'm not so sure about the "giving credit"
argument, though: watch this space! BTW you wrote "putting too much stock
into less serious etymological works". I think we invent certain phrases to
make sure that even gifted linguists like yourself trip up every so often.
Did you mean "setting too much [or great] store by"? Or is this a US
development?

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Etymology

Au, jegerle!  Au des nôh!  An Schwab uff Lowlands-L!   Schlag mi s' Blechle!
Wellkomma, liaba Klaus!

John:

> "Boulevard", like E "bulwark", is actually from MDu "bolwerc" (Mod Du
> "bolwerk").

Hey, not that I want to grab undue "credit" here, but what's that with the
_...wark_ part?  The only Continental Lowlands varieties I know have
/...arC/ where others have /...erC/ are the Saxon ones.


LS         Du       En          Sc

wark     werk    work       wark
kark      kerk    church    kirk
barg      berg
harder   herder  herder   hird
karn      kern      kernel   kirnel

LS: bolwark ~ bulwark (<Bollwark> ~ <Bullwark>)

So there!  Chew on that for a while!

Flemish dialects too perhaps?

> BTW you wrote "putting too much stock
> into less serious etymological works". I think we invent certain phrases
to
> make sure that even gifted linguists like yourself trip up every so often.
> Did you mean "setting too much [or great] store by"? Or is this a US
> development?

It's how folks in this neck of the woods say it.  Americanism?  Very likely.
Surprising?  Mind you, it goes without saying that, no matter how much stock
you put in it, you'd better stay away from insider trading.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron


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