LL-L "Language politics" 2004.09.14 (06) [D/E/Esperanto]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.SEP.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: 1handclapping <1handclapping at myway.com>
Subject: LL-L Politics

"World English" / Wouldn't it be simpler if people would realize that
English in fact is a very confuzing language and instead of creating another
variety of this language they would do the in fact small effort of learning
Esperanto. A very precise universal idiom.

"Wereldengels" : zou het niet eenvoudiger zijn indien de mensen zich er
rekenschap van geven dat het Engels in feite een zeer verwarrende taal is en
in plaats van een nieuwe varieteit van die taal te scheppen , de in feite
kleine moeite te doen om Esperanto te leren. Een nauwkeurig en universeel
idioom.

"Mondialo Anglan" : cxu gxi ne estas multe facila se la homoj si doni
kalkulon pri la fakto ke la Anglan estas ligvo tre konfuzita kaj anstataux
de krei novan varion de ci-tiu ligvon ili farus
la malgrande klopodo de lerni Esperanton : precise universa lingvon.

Fr iendly greetings, vriendelijke groeten, amikaj salutoj,

Roger Verhiest

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From: 1handclapping <1handclapping at myway.com>
Subject: LL-L

Beste Mark Dreyer,

Ik schrijf je in het nederlands omdat het mijn moedertaal is en bovendien
een taal die je allicht het beste kan begrijpen (zoals ik jouw afrikaans
zeer goed begrijp). De taalproblemen in jouw land
zijn minstens even groot als de problemen in de EU vanaf het ogenblik dat
deze landenbond zich meer en meer als een federale of confederale staat gaat
gedragen. Bovendien wordt dit probleem in jouw land nog bemoeilijkt door het
feit dat de diverse talen niet in afzonderlijke kerngebieden worden
gesproken, maar min of meer door elkaar. Als ik het goed begrijp vervullen
zowel het engels als het afrikaans de rol van "lingua franca", met een
lichte voorkeur voor het engels, gezien
de internationale uitstraling van deze taal.

Er zijn 3 voorbeelden die ik ken van talen die door politieke promotie
(her)ontstaan zijn :
He breeuws, Indonesich en Indisch. Van het Hebreeuws heb ik de indruk dat
deze taal voor velen de "moedertaal" geworden is. Van het Indisch en
Indonesisch heb ik de indruk dat deze nog steeds min of meer een
"kunstmatige" status hebben. Ik breng dit onderwerp ter sprake omdat ik me
afvraag of het mettertijd geen noodzaak zal zijn in de EU en Z.Afrika om een
bepaalde taal als "lingua franka" naar voor te schuiven & of het Esperanto
hier wegens zijn neutrale status
hier geen rol kan spelen.

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.09.14 (07) [E]

> John Baskind wrote:
>
> >While the use of one's own ethnic language in America is not discouraged,
> it isn't very much encouraged,
> officially at least, other than in ethnically described commercial areas
> (Chinatown, Japantown, etc).

Actually, there seem to be very many Americans who object to anyone speaking
anything other than English, even if the conversation is absolutely none of
their business. This topic even comes up in popular advice columns every now
and then. They will approach you and command: "Speak English - we're in
America!!" It must have happened to me and my children a dozen times at
least, from various people, over the course of eight years. Mind you, those
were complete strangers who just overheard us in the checkout line at the
grocery store, at the playground, etc. I admit that, after the third time or
so, I developed the standard answer: "Then how can we talk about you behind
your back?"

Gabriele Kahn

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language politics

Roger (above):

> "World English" / Wouldn't it be simpler if people would realize that
English
> in fact is a very confuzing language and instead of creating another
variety of
> this language they would do the in fact small effort of learning
Esperanto. A
> very precise universal idiom.

Greetings and good luck to you and all other Esperantists, and no offence to
the memories of Dr. Ludwik Lejzer Zamenhof, whose heart was obviously in the
right place.  But why introduce yet another language, "precise" or
otherwise, whose very basis is limited to Indo-European, actually without
the "Indo" part, and is therefore easily dismissed as fundamentally
Eurocentric?  The same applies to Interlingua, Occidental and the rest.  If
you get a chance to create a global lingua franca from scratch, wouldn't we
expect you to take into consideration *all* people, cultures and language
types of the world, not just those of that little spit of land claiming to
be a "continent"?

Gabriele (above):

> "Speak English - we're in
> America!!"

Which is illogical, given that, apparently unbeknownst to most of its
citizens, the United States don't have an officially national language.
English is only a _de facto_ national language.  By not enshrining a
specific language in the constitution, freedom of choice and change is
warranted.  Many people want to change this in order to prevent Spanish and
eventually Mandarin Chinese from "taking over."  (Oh, no, oh, no!  Would we
then all have to convert to Roman Catholicism and eat burritos all day,
eventually to be forced into Communism and eating with chopsticks?)
However, _de facto_ is the word.  English may not officially be the national
language, you still don't have the right not to know it, don't have the
choice of being allowed to swear your oath of allegiance in Urdu, Tigrinya
or Quechua at your naturalization ceremony ...  Hmmm ...

The reaction may be illogical, but it is common and *by no means* confined
to the United States.  I have heard similar things said to folks in Canada,
the United Kingdom, Australia and Germany (in the latter case referring to
German, especially leveled at "guest workers" and other "foreigners,"
including also calls like "Auf Deutsch!" when state and federal legislators
made speeches in the local language Lowlands Saxon to make a point).  In
Xinjiang (Eastern Turkestan) I heard people hiss at Uyghurs for speaking
their native language instead of Mandarin among themselves in the company of
Han Chinese, and this on native Uyghur soil ...

I hear especially Spanish, Tagalog, Mandarin and Korean spoken on a daily
basis.  Add to this a gezillion other languages, especially on cell phones
while riding public transport.  Yet, I have *never* heard *anyone* say
anything of the sort to any speakers of other languages here in the Seattle
area.  Again, it's not a specific American thing.  It's a global thing, and
it depends on the attitudes (some would say "level of tolerance and
sophistication") of specific communities and individuals.

Like the icecream vendor in Travemünde (Germany) that barked at me when I
pronounced the written flavor choice "maple walnut" in English, _Was?! So
redet man hiä nich!_ ("What?! You don't talk like that around here!") ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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