LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.16 (02) [E]

Thu Sep 16 18:56:24 UTC 2004

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.14 (09) [E/Middelsprake]

Peter Snepvangers wrote:
> I have the impression that the verb "can" (preserve food at home) is much
> more common in the US than the UK. Americans "can" fruits and vegetables
in
> "Mason jars" while Brits "bottle" them in "Kilner jars", though I'm not
sure
> that the containers are exactly the same.
>
> G'Day John and Lowlanders,
> In Australia we follow the UK but we "bottle" them in Fowler Jars.

In Germany, they're "Weck-Gläser" (after the name of the company who makes
the things), and the verb is "einwecken" (it's even in the "Duden"
thesaurus); the only case I can think of where a brand name has officially
become a verb in German (along the lines of "to hoover", to xerox", etc.),
although my family, and possibly others, also uses "to google" as a verb by
now (after the search machine): "Keine Ahnung, das muss ich mal googeln!"

Weck-Gläser are slightly different from Mason jars, though; they do not have
screw tops. They are glass containers with glass lids, and a wide rubber
ring with a pull tab that you put in between.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Tom <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.14 (09) [E/Middelsprake]

Lowlands-L wrote:

>I read somewhere that there is OE cann or can meaning could (or requiring
permission) and wonder if this is linked
>to the Scots. Why do we have so many words in English that are spelt the
>same such as can (the tinned variety) and can (the permission variety)? If
>there is a phonetic difference it is certainly minimal. I guess there would
>be examples in other languages as well or is this just something peculiar
to
>modern English.
>
>Cheers
>Peter Snepvangers snepvangers at optushome.com.au
>
>
Hello Peter,

A Scottish anecdote on 'can':

Some time ago I attended a leture about the pronunciation of English in
the linguistics department of a French university. The lecture was in
French but the lady giving it was a native speaker of  English with a
plummy accent and phonetic script to back it up. She gave the example of
the pronunciation of 'can' and wrote up the standard script for it on
the board. I asked her - in French - whether she took into account other
prounciations of the word and gave the example of a Scottish
pronunciation of 'can'. She immediately replied  that I would never be
understood if I used such a pronunciation. So much for varsity variety.

Regards,

Tom

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.14 (09) [E/Middelsprake]

Gabrielle asked:
" Where does it come from - Britain perhaps?"

I don't know if it's British or not, but I comes from a book called
"Roberts' Rules of Order."  It's sort of a handbook for how to run a
meeting.  I guess since we Americans are such "joiners" we had to come up
with a set of rules for running our clubs.

Mark Brooks

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.14 (09) [E/Middelsprake]

> From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.15 (03) [E]
>
> John Baskind wrote:
> > Excuse me, Fortress Europe, but in America the same hegemonic monotony
> is
> > known as "Mid-Atlantic English", although I'm rather pleased that it is
> > losing ground steadily to the "received pronunciation" -based new
> European
> > variety in the EU. The end of Yankee imperialism, maybe?
> >
> > …and here's my vote for Middelsprake as a replacement!
>
> I second! We have a motion!!!
>
> By the way, this funny, formal little ritual of motions and seconding and
> ayes and nays really took me by surprise when I moved to the States (I
> first
> encountered it at a first grade parents' meeting). We have nothing
> comparable in Germany. Where does it come from - Britain perhaps?

Robert's Rules of Order, by Gen. Henry M. Robert.  The first edition was
published in the US in 1876.  They were greatly expanded in the 4th edition
in 1915.  The 10th edition came out in 2000.  Here's the official website,
with a page on the history of the manual:

http://www.robertsrules.com/default.html

> From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Well, Andrys, since you ask, you're wrong about "wrought iron".
>
> Metallurgy 101: Wrought iron, in the original sense, is "wrought" to
> produce
> the raw product. Pig iron is melted in an open-hearth furnace and
> "puddled"
> to get rid of a lot of the carbon. The iron produced contains a lot of
> slag
> and has to be hammered to remove part of it and distribute the rest to get
> a
> fairly uniform (not homogeneous) product. Put all that in the past tense.
> The modern product used for fancy ironwork is just a low-carbon steel. If
> you look at a lot of US ads for "rod iron" and "wrought iron" products I
> think you'll find that there is really no difference between the two. Of
> course some things are made of iron rod, but that's a description of the
> form, not the material.
>
> Just to underline two linguistic points: first, the UK term is "wrought"
> iron and the sound of "rod" is different from it in the major dialects
> (and
> perhaps all of them) so we don't get phonological interference; second,
> you
> can't rely on etymology to explain technical terms, and in fact it's often
> a
> very poor guide to meaning.

As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone calls it "rod iron" is because
that's how Americans pronounce "wrought iron" (so blame it on the American
dental tap).  Americans who aren't familiar with the word "wrought" hear
"rod" and think that's what the term is.  Like I said, it drives me nuts
when I see it in print as "rod iron".

Kevin Caldwell

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From: John Baskind <jbaskind at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2004.09.14 (09) [E/Middelsprake]

On Sep 15, 2004, at 8:42 PM, Gabriele wrote:

  By the way, this funny, formal little ritual of motions and seconding and
  ayes and nays really took me by surprise when I moved to the States (I
first
  encountered it at a first grade parents' meeting). We have nothing
  comparable in Germany. Where does it come from - Britain perhaps?

Robert's Rules.

" Henry Martyn Robert was an engineering officer in the regular Army.
Without warning he was asked to preside over a church meeting and realized
that he did not know how. He tried anyway and his embarrassment was supreme.
This event, which may seem familiar to many readers, left him determined
never to attend another meeting until he knew something of parliamentary
law.

Ultimately, he discovered and studied the few books then available on the
subject. From time to time, due to his military duties, he was transferred
to various parts of the United States where he found virtual parliamentary
anarchy since each member from a different part of the country had differing
ideas of correct procedure. To bring order out of chaos he decided to write
Robert's Rules of Order as it came to be called."

from http://www.robertsrules.com/history.html

>>From the above, I suspect its origins are in Westminster, although British
parliamentary debate is a lot less restrained.

-
John Baskind
jbaskind at mac.com

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