LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (05) [E]

Fri Apr 8 20:03:11 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.07 (01) [E]

Roger wrote:

"... you will have to learn English
which is a de facto devaluation"

Allow me to disagree.
If it´s done right... but I repeat myself.

"the EU converses with its citiizens in any of the 20 official
languages -
in practice you can forget it if you are unable to use english."

Here I agree, Roger, even more reason to introduce it
with ALL the precautions necessary, and to learn it.

"If minority language speakers want to take action to preserve their
language
they should support the idea of "Esperanto" as a 2nd language for
everyone.."

Why would English devaluate, and Esperanto would not?
It´s all a question of what legal (and de-facto) status
you give to the 2nd, common language. Esperanto is great
but the de-facto status of English is such that it´s use
as a European and World lingua franca has some chances
of succeeding, whereas Esperanto has not, as much as
I hate to look this sad fact in the eye...
So let´s not fight a lost cause but CONCENTRATE on
safeguarding our linguistic diversity in face, and with
the HELP of English.
Mike Wintzer

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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

Mark wrote:

I think that all efforts to keep languages alive would be better if
all regions adopted the Welsh idea that there is no escaping education
in the native language but by leaving the region.

Mark, I predict that you will be criticised as a radical,
just as I am criticised when I wrote, keep writing:

a language only has a chance of surviving if in its geographical domain if
it is de jure AND de facto THE PRIMARY language.

My question would be:
What is wrong with having to leave a land if you are not
willing to learn its language???
(Andorra, [among others?] implicitly applies this practice, through its
practice of extending residency permits.)

Mike Wintzer

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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

Ron wrote:

 However, it seems to me that nothing can truly be implemented until
the various governments are willing to do so, and to bring this about, the
voters must truly want them to and must express this at the ballot boxes and
in campaigns.

Voters whose languages might have been denigrated, snuffed out,
maybe generations ago, cannot vote in an unbiased manner.

Why has "Maastricht" survived? Because it was not submitted to
referenda in all countries. Why will the "Constitution" fail?
Because it will be voted down. Democracy means that, supposedly
and hopefully, cool-blooded and responsible politicians elected by
popular vote, will make decisions free from campaign emotions.

Mike Wintzer

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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

Ron quoted:

In yet another display of French contempt towards linguistic diversity,

Another example: The Occitan weekly LA SETMANA no. 496 quotes from
a French Interior Ministry Report (rapport Benisti), where it
is stated that speaking French in the family will prevent the
children from becoming criminals (sic!). The paper concludes:
Donc lo fait de parlar lo "patuès de son país" es assimilat a un factor
favorable a la delinquéncia.

For your information,
Mike Wintzer

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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

From: Lowlands-L
To: LOWLANDS-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 4:14 PM
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

I am glad to see that the subject, almost everytime it comes up, can arouse
so much interest and so many reactions. I was delighted to read through the
postings, Irish, Welsh, Letzebuergish, Sölring, Maori, LS...Wow!
Great postings!!!
Now, at the danger of repeating myself or even sound irritating: To me the
World, past and present, proves that a language only has a chance of
surviving if in its geographical domain it is de jure AND de facto THE
PRIMARY language in ALL areas of public life, education, administration,
media.
Larry, what in the world is it that prevents the Luxemburgers from making
their language their - only - state language (which would in no way prevent
them from continuing to learn and use other languages)?
Larry, I´d like to ask this provocative question: Is there perhaps a bit of
inferiority complex involved in face of the "major" languages???
Mike Wintzer

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From: Mike <botas at club-internet.fr>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.08 (02) [E/German]

Mark wrote:

It just hurts so much to see that so many language
revival efforts go on for even 30 or more years doing nothing more
than 2nd-language education for adults (evening classes). This is not
going to bring your language back. If this is all you do, you can kiss
your language goodbye right now.

Look around in history and in the present to find heaps of lamentable
examples...

Mike Wintzer

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