LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.12 (03) [E]

Tue Apr 12 15:58:42 UTC 2005

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L O W L A N D S - L * 12.APR.2005 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.11 (09) [E]

Dear Lowlanders

I have just returned from New Zealand and from my own observation the Maori
language seems to have disappeared  from the streets of New Zealand, even in
those areas where there are supposed to be most of the Maori speakers
(arounmd the East Cape of the North Island), I have not heard any of the
Maori families I encountered speaking Maori to each other. Although great
efforts are now undertaken to save the language such as a Maori TV channel
it seems to go the way like Irish, it has mere symbolic importance as e.g in
the haka but ceased to be the language even Maori communicate in any longer.
All school-children have to learn Maori for two years at school (including
the Pakehas, those of European descent) but often the teacher him/herself
cannot get a complete sentence together in Maori, the Maori-newsreaders
leave the impression that they are native English-speakers who attained a
reasonable knowledge of the language. But I might have it all wrong, I
wonder whether we have a native Maori speaker in our Lowlands-group who
could prove my impression wrong, I would be more than glad if I am. The
problem is, I have seen it all before, it is just like my native Low Saxon
has almost entirely disappeared from the streets of Slesvig-Holsten.

Groeten

Helge

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From: Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.11 (06) [E]

I meant mostly on a federal level. As an Arizonan, I encounter
bilingual signs, forms, phonelines, websites, etc. on a daily basis,
and a great deal of these are from the state government or municipal
governments.

The degree of bilingualism is such that if somebody in the state
senate floated a bill written entirely in Spanish, well, it wouldn't
happen even though we have a few senators who seem like they would do
that.

In fact, in Flagstaff, the most important municipal documents are
translated into Navajo, which is very much a waste since most Navajos
can't read Navajo and most of those that can are too young to care
about such documents or have a high enough degree of fluency in
English to understand the English version.

On a state level, however, the government is less bilingual than at
the county or municipal level, and basically all dealings with the
federal goverment are conducted in English.

Mark

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.11 (09) [E]

Jim Krause wrote:
"I sometimes wonder if English will go the way of Latin: that is, after a
period of development will divide into several related but significantly
different languages, just as Latin spawned French, Spanish, Protugese,
Rumanian, Catalan, and others."

Tom McRae replied:
"The first signs of this evolvement are already there. American English is
already so close yet so far apart from the parent stream... pidgin in the
South Pacific are incomprehensible to
newcomers and that developed in Papua New Guinea has become an official
language."

English would have developed as Latin did if there was no print media or
electronic media. The evidence is there in Yola and Fingalian in Ireland,
which were unintelligible to English speakers by the eighteenth and
nineteenth century (and a good bit beforehand). Creoles are becoming less
lexically separate from English because of the global power of that
language, as any glance at the Tok Pisin page of the Australian Broadcasting
Corporation's Radio National website shows. It is a shame that they are
being brought back into the linguistic fold (so to speak), but apparently
inevitable. It would be pleasing if Jamaica, Guyana and the like followed
the Haitian example and adopted the local language as official, but it seems
unlikely despite nationalist efforts that it be so.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.04.11 (09) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>But since you mentioned Latin: where did Latin actually come from? It
can't
just have fallen out of the sky and then spread like a virus. Does anyone
know whether Latin is actually a true indigenous mediterranean language
(however one would define that), or did it at some point originate as some
kind of pidgin as well? I never really thought about this, forgive me if
this is an old hat for linguists.<

Latin was/is a member of the Italo-Celtic languages , descended from
Indo-European. There are clear internal signs that the Celtic languages and
Latin grew out of a single branch of IE

re the possible growth of new languages from English
We ( Modern Foreign languager inspectors and Advisors in the UK ) were
advised some years ago by an ex-member who now is a European member of
Parliament that the English spoken on the corridors of Brussels was
developing into a language all of its own, with differences of nuance and
meaning that would perplex the normal English speaker.

I believe the same is true for Indian English - but that is only a cautious
comment, stemming from a couple of articles I have read.

History would indicate this is to be entirely expected...................
Look what happened to our largest colony (!?)

Heather

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