LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.14 (11) [A/E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 14.APR.2005 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: mark & ruth <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.09 (03) [E/F/LS]

Hullo Henno, en Ron:

 Onderwerp "Etymology"

> > I have another question regarding Afrikaans.

Hi, Ron en almal. Hiermee wil ek my spaan insteek. Saam met 'hierdie en
daardie' het ons ook die 'dit en dat' in Afrikaans. Ons ken dit en ons
gebruik dit net soos julle, beide as blote uitdrukking asook om 'n keuse of
keur oor te dra.

bv. "Nee, Tannie, ons gons net oor dit en dat!" oftwel, "dit, dat en die
ander."
      "Wil jy dit (uitgewys) hê of wil jy dat (uitgewys) hê? Die keuse is
joune."

Die Uwe,
Mark

---------

From: mark & ruth <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.09 (03) [E/F/LS]

Hullo Almal,

Onderwerp: "Etymology"

> *Knief*

Wat van die Afrikaans 'knak' English 'break'? Maar die Engels gebruik 'n
woord 'knap' om 'n vuursteentjie uit te slaan, vir 'n grotbewoner se spies
of mes en vir die snaphaan van die ou jagter. Dit is 'n elegante beskrywing
van die wyse hoe om die flint te bekom, en so sê die geledere wat in die ou
kuns vaardig is, 'ek knak vir my 'n vuurklippie."

Die Uwe,
Mark

----------

From: mark & ruth <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.12 (01) [E]

Beste JB den Besten, Ingmar, Ron, Peter en Almal.

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

Sak tog, Sarel! (& anybody else).

Afr. "hierdie" and "daardie",

What about 'thisyer' & 'thatyer' that my Grandfather picked up somewhere in
North England during the General Strike? Anyway, speakers are not slaves to
linguistic precident. Invention & extrapolation is a recognised & familiar
tool of common speech.

Ingmar, I want to hear more from you & Hans. Just get you excited & pearls
of wisdom simply pour from your lips.

However, I think Ron has made a point worthy of note here.
> >On a personal note, I don't see why we ought to consider only "either ...
> or
> >..." instead of a multi-origin possibility.

The Nederlands Colonial Empire was born of a serious stirring of nearly
related communities following the war of liberation from Spain. Certainly
the Hollands dialect was important, bearing on the economic dominance of
that region, but it served, I believe, as a common mean to the speakers of
other dialects. They spoke Hollands to each other, but each in his own way.

Now I have something else to say. Many Nederlanders wintered over in Israel,
on my kibbutz, the years I was there. As compared to Gretchen from
Rotterdam, The Fries guys (Stadsfries, it seemed to me) and Sibella from
Dordrecht, Hans, a denizen of Amsterdam & Kim the Flaming among many others,
I followed the conversation with the Zeelandies twins, Celestine & Marianne
rather the best. That has to count for something. Mind you, Kim & I drank
very well together. Also, bear in mind the dialectic features of my Taal
were ossified over two-&-a-half centuries ago. Modern Zeeus doesn't sound
the way it did then. Afrikaans certainly doesn't! Extrapolating from modern
Zeeus or Hollands to Modern Afrikaans is reckless & unhelpful.

Guys, I have been out of the picture some time, with the death of my
computer, so hullo agin. It is pleasant to lurk a whil, & keep it stirring.

Groete,
Mark

----------

From: R. F. Hahn sassisch at yahoo.com
Subject: Etymology

Haai, Mark! Welkom tuis!

> Hi, Ron en almal. Hiermee wil ek my spaan insteek. Saam met 'hierdie en
> daardie' het ons ook die 'dit en dat' in Afrikaans. Ons ken dit en ons
> gebruik dit net soos julle, beide as blote uitdrukking asook om 'n keuse
> of
> keur oor te dra.
>
> bv. "Nee, Tannie, ons gons net oor dit en dat!" oftwel, "dit, dat en die
> ander."

Dat segt wy lyk so in 't Neddersassische:

"Nee, wy snakt man bloots so oever dit (~ düt) un dat!"

>       "Wil jy dit (uitgewys) hê of wil jy dat (uitgewys) hê? Die keuse is
> joune."

"Wult du dit (~ düt) hebben, or wult du dat hebben? De koyr is dyn."

Ek glo Afrikaans "hierdie" en "daardie" is adjektiewe, en "dit" en "dat" is
pronomen.

- Wil jy hierdie pop hê?
- Nee, ek wil daardie (pop) hê.

- Wil jy dit (hier) hê?
- Nee, ek wil dat (daar) hê.

Reg so?

Nedersaksies:

- Wult du düsse pop hebben?
- Nee, ik wil dey (daar/pop) hebben.

Over saaklike of onsekere sake:

- Wult du düt (hyr) hebben?
- Nee, ik wil dat (daar) hebben.

Over poppe (vroulik):

- Wult du düsse (hyr) hebben?
- Nee, ik wil dey (daar) hebben.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================