LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.24 (01) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.23 (03) [E]

Ron [1] asked:
"Does anyone disagree with my assumption?"

Yes, or should i say I have some questions about it.
Hebrew origin of a Middle English word? I doubt that, although it is
theoretically possible and of course there are Hebrew derived words in
(Middle) English, through the Bible or otherwise.
But I think it has more to do with 'run', and means a song or a poem that
is running, because of its shortness. In Dutch we say that <iets loopt>
when it's going well, smoothly. Lopen = to walk/to run. And <een loopje>
is a short musical passage, like a <run> in English.

Irish <rann> seems to be more plausible, then.

Or, even more interesting, how about a connection to <rune>?
>>From <secret/obscure sign> to <secret message> to <(short) secret love
poem> to <ron>? That isn't any stranger than from the Hebrew meaning <cry>
to <short love poem/song>, neh?

So hopefully we can't say anymore that our Ron [1] is of obscure origin too

Ingmar

>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>>
>"ron [1]"
>
>[Of obscure origin.
>  The word being app. southern, it is uncertain whether the original form
is
>ron or rǫn:—*ran: the latter would have a parallel in Ir. rann verse,
poem,
>but any real connexion between the two is very doubtful. In Cursor M. 219
>the form ron prob. stands for roun, rūn, but riot ron (riming with don
done)
>in line 26938 may belong here.]
>    A short poem or song, esp. a love-song.
>
>Personally I have no doubt in my mind that this word is a biblically
derived
>Hebrew one:
>
>רׄן ~ רָן
>RN (rŏn = _ron_ with a short "o", or _rân_)
>
>The original meaning of this noun appears to be '(ringing) cry', 'shout',
>'cry of joy', 'cheer', extended to approximately 'tune', 'song', 'air',
>'(sung) poem', 'ode'.
>
>>This word is related to the following verb:
>
>רָ ַן _rânan_ 'to give ringing cries', 'to shout', 'to cheer', 'to exalt',
>'to praise (loudly)',
>
>Does anyone disagree with my assumption?

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From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.23 (01) [E]

Och more entomology than etymology Ron but this fascinates me.
I don't know if it still exists in Lowland Scots but my mother and her
friends would refer to large beetles, and I suspect cockroaches, as
'Big Kloakers'.

On 24/04/2005, at 6:59 AM,  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I’m seen the grund kwik wi’ hondiklokks. (... winged beetles)
>
Regards
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us
Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us
Robert Burns

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From: Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.23 (03) [E]

Could those definitions have come from th wrend or a rendition?

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ingmar,

I assumed it went without saying that I had in mind biblical influence, a
term borrowed by way of Old Testament scholarship.  However, I suppose I
ought to have assumed nothing.

Perhaps mine would not be more exotic a proposition than your "run" one, one
assuming French origin (*_rond_) or some such.  I understand that the
obsolete English term "ron" used to be restricted to scholarly, literary
spheres, which may make it a bit more likely to have been an esoteric term.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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