LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.31 (09) [E/German/Russian]

Mon Aug 1 06:08:40 UTC 2005

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Resources"

Beste Jonny,

You wrote:

> Nur einen Tag später nahm sich unser Luc dieses Themas an, und er (des
> Deutschen sehr mächtig) schrieb 'Schmand', sei es als Zitat oder von ihm
> selbst verfasst.

Thanks first of all, but I quoted this from the 'dtv-Atlas zur Deutschen
Sparche'. Today I checked out Kluge's etymological dictionary, and
believe it or not: they do support the 'smetana'-origin, and don't
mention any relationship with 'smooth' (E).

Schmant
SmSubstantiv Maskulinum "(saure) Sahne" per.peripherer Wortschatz
reg.regional (15. Jh.)Entlehnung. Wie Schmetten entlehnt aus Cech.
(usw.) smetana f. "Milchrahm".

That's exactly what they write. I guess it's clear by now that there's
no consensus yet, but that doesn't mean the problem cannot be
solved...it doesn't even necessarily mean that some people are
contradicting each other as it could well be that 'smooth' and 'smetana'
are related on a higher level...as Ron pointed out earlier on.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

-------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Luc, Jonny, folks,

I've checked a good number of sources, and not a single one connects 
_Schmand_ 'sour cream' with "smooth," but all link it with Slavonic 
_smetana_.

If _Schmand_ were Germanic and connected with English "smooth" I would 
expect this relationship to be analogous to Indo-European *_dent-_ ~ 
*_dont-_ (Sanskrit दन्त ~ दन्त् _dant(a)_) > Teutonic *_tanþ_ (I assume 
*_tanð_) > Gothic _tunþus_, Dutch _tand_, Old German _zan(a)_ > German 
_Zahn_, Old Saxon _tand_ > Low Saxon _teen_ ~ _taan_ versus Ingveonic: Old 
English _tóð_ > _tóþ_ > English "tooth", Scots _tuith_, Old Frisian _tond_ ~ 
_tôth_ > E. Frisian _tôth_, N. Frisian _tond_.  Another example: Gothic 
_sunjis_ 'true', Old Norse _sanðr_ ~ _sannr_ > Danish _sand_ 'true', 
'sound', versus Ingveonic: Old English _sóð_ > _sóþ_ > English "sooth", 
Scots _suith_, Old Saxon _sóð_.  (Remember that Saxon is partly Ingveonic.)

So, if _Schmand_ and "smooth" were analogous to that, I would expect other 
forms showing the /n/.  Where are they?  Apparently there isn't an abundance 
of cognates of English "smooth" and Scots _smuith_.  However, I can think of 
one group: Low Saxon */smöüd-/ > _smoyden_ (<smöden>) 'to make 
smooth/subtle', 'to soothe, 'to alleviate pain', _besmoyden_ (<besmöden>) 
'to sooth', 'to calm down', 'to pacify', _smoydig_ (<smödig>) 'smooth', 
'subtle', 'soft', 'gentle', 'soothing', northeastern _smoyd'_ (<smö>) 
'smooth', 'subtle', 'soft', 'gentle', 'soothing'.  (Other dialects use the 
*/smiid-/ group for the same, which, however, is unrelated, is related to 
'(easy to) cut' as in German _Schmiede_ 'smithy' and _geschmeidig_ 'subtle', 
Low Saxon _smydig_ (<smiedig>) as above.)  In fact, Old Saxon has _smôthi_ 
with the same meaning as _smoydig_ and _smoyd'_.  Is this a case of only two 
Inveonisms surviving, or was there no /n/ to start with?  I would indeed 
expect things in the order of *_smand_ and *_schmand_.

If the Slavonic theory bears any water, I would expect to find a nasalized 
vowel in older forms or related words of _smetana_, something like *_smęt_ 
(> *_smętana_), perhaps *_sămęt_ (> *_sŭmętana_ to account for 
Draveno-Polabian _sômatona_).  This is why I am desperate to find an Old 
Church Slavonic form or a Slavonic etymological dictionary.

Stop press! I just looked as Vassmer's Russian Etymological Dictionary, and 
he has this to say:

<quote>

укр. _смета́на_, блр. смета́нка, болг. _смета́на_ (Младенов), словен. 
smẹ́tana, чеш., слвц. smetana "сливки, сметана", др.-польск. śmiotana, 
польск. śmietana, диал. śmiotana, śniotana (Нич, JР I, 40 и сл.), кашуб. 
smjotana, в.-луж. smjetana, н.-луж. sḿetana -- растение "Ulmaria 
реntареtаlа".

Реконструкция праформы *sъmetana вытекает из укр. и др.-польск. формы; в 
польск. диал. smiętana, возм., развилось вторичное ę, как в międzу 
"между". Больше затруднений представляет фонетическая форма рум. 
smi^nti^nă, истрорум. smi^nti^ră -- то же, smi^nti^resc "снимать сливки", 
которое возводится к слав. *sъmętana; см. Тиктин 3, 1447; Бюхан, JIRSpr. 5, 
319; Мi. ЕW 189. Как правило, *sъmetana производят от форм, родственных 
_мета́ть_, _мечу́_, sъmětati, сербохорв. смѐтати "снимать, сбрасывать" 
(Брюкнер, KZ 48, 214 и сл.; Sɫown. 533; РF 5, 40; Розвадовский, JР 1, 38 и 
сл.; Нич, там же; Желтов, ФЗ, 1876, вып. 4, стр. 40; Преобр. II, 336). 
Другие ввиду наличия рум. форм восстанавливают слав. форму *sъmętana и 
сближают ее со ст.-слав. мѩтѫ, мѩсти "мешать" (Мi. ЕW 189; Бернекер 2, 44; 
Траутман, ВSW 181 и сл.). Носовой гласный лишен в слав. удовлетворительной 
мотивации (Траутман, там же). В таком случае пришлось бы предположить, что 
первонач. *sъmętana в результате диссимиляции ę и следующего -n- рано дало 
*sъmetana (Бернекер, Траутман). Вост.-ср.-нем. Schmant "сливки" нельзя 
привлекать при этом, потому что ср.-нж.-нем. smant и нов.-в.-н. Schmant 
представлено в Лотарингии, Трире, Люксембурге (Кречмер, D. Wortg. 400 и сл.; 
Клюге--Гётце 528) и, вероятно, его нужно отделить от слав. слов.
</quote>

Now we're getting somewhere.  And I got my Kashubian form (_smjotana_) and 
my Old Church Slavonic base forms (мѩтѫ _mjO~tE~_, мѩсти _mjO~sti_) too, 
*with* nasalized vowel!  The OCS base forms denote 'to stir'.  Their derived 
form is _sъmętana_ (_sămętana_).  Romanian has borrowed it as _smîntînă_, 
Istro-Romanian as _smîntîră_ and derived the verb _smîntîresc_ 'to skim 
cream'.  Note that these Romanian (thus Romance) languages borrowed the word 
at a time when the nasal vowel was still intact.  (In Slavonic, still in 
Modern Polish and Kashubian, nasalized vowels call for denazalization and 
insertion of [n] before /t/ and other dentals; thus _smęt_ -> _sment_.) 
Vassmer assumes that nasalization in _smetana_ is the result of 
dissimilation.

However, sadly, Vassmer (о, какой бесстыдный предатель!) does not believe 
that German _Schmand_ is related to it.  Why?  _Smant_ apparently occurs in 
Low Saxon, and relatives are found as far west as Lorraine, Trier and 
Luxembourg.  I don't think this is a particularly strong argument, since Low 
Saxon did have Slavonic influences and borrowed heavily from German as well, 
including Eastern German, as did the western dialects of German (such as 
fish and bird names, G _Stieglitz_,  LS _stygelitsch_ ~ _staylitsch_ 
'goldfinch' for instance).

Anyway, I wasn't out on a limb all by myself now, was I, you little doubting 
Thomases?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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