LL-L "Migration" 2005.08.12 (08) [E]

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Migration" 2005.08.12 (04) [E]


Ron wrote:
"I was sure glad to hear that you "love this list."..."

Well it has been a part of my life for six and a half years now... longer 
actually than my wife, my connections to Australia, my anaemia and some of 
my nieces and nephews.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Migration" 2005.08.12 (04) [E]


Ron wrote:
"The Tuva of northern Xinjiang (who speak a Turkic language) must visit 
Mongolian schools in which (Chakhar) Mongolian is used along with Mandarin 
and some Kazakh, even though hardly anyone in the area speaks Chakhar 
Mongolian but speaks Oyrat (Oirat), another Mongolic language (which used to 
be written but no longer is, because it doesn't officially exist)."

If Oirat is the lingua franca of the area, why is it deemed not to exist by 
the Chinese Government? I would have thought Tuvan would have had some 
status if the Tuvans of the area lived adjacent to the republic of the same 
name - perhaps a Tuvan autonomous district of some kind in one of the East 
Turkestan prefectures.

"This way assures that many children are educated in languages other than 
their native ones and smaller minority languages disappear, thus assuring 
simplification of the complex minority pattern to the level at which it is 
officially presented."

This is what I understand Chinese linguistic policy to be, especially in 
Yunnan with its (to the Chinese Government) confusing mix of Tai peoples.

"When I traveled in Xinjiang I was usually assumed to be an ethnic Russian, 
because foreigners didn't travel by themselves at that time, I spoke 
Mandarin and wore a Mao uniform (which was still done among foreign students 
at the time). Some older Uyghurs and Kazakhs addressed me in Russian, 
younger ones in Uyghur."

It is interesting that younger Uighurs addressed you in that language. That 
at least demonstrates a certain social (not official) status for Uighur in 
East Turkestan. I am reminded of the switch in Macedonia someone once 
mentioned, whereby travellers who used to be addressed in Serbo-Croat 
increasingly found themselves addressed in either Macedonian or Albanian by 
younger citizens of Macedonia who had not been brought up under the 
(Serbo-Croat-centric) Yugoslav system.

To take this subject back to the Mennonites and ethnic Russians in East 
Turkestan and elsewhere, when I searched for data on the Russian population 
in some of my books and the only thing I found that I had not mentioned was 
that the Chinese Russians are an ageing population, with 11.5 per cent over 
65 years of age in 1981 (a figure beaten only by the Han). In this they seem 
to be very similar to their co-ethnics in the former Soviet Union generally, 
so even more doubt is thrown on the likelihood of any survival of 
Plautdietsch amongst migrant Mennonites among them, alas.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Migration

Thanks for your input, Críostóir.

> If Oirat is the lingua franca of the area, why is it deemed not to exist
> by the Chinese Government?

Because the basic Eurasian idea(l) still is "one ethnicity = one language," 
and Oyrat (which used to be a literary language) is about as close to 
Chakhar and Khalkha as Danish is to Swedish and Norwegian.  Thus, Chakhar, 
the language of "Inner Mongolia," is imposed on everyone classed "Mongol," 
and at the same time this separates it from Khalkha, the standard language 
of Mongolia, thus asserting the separation of "Inner" Mongolia from "Outer" 
Mongolia.  It's the old Eurasian game of consolidating and deviding, naming, 
moving, recognizing and ignoring people and languages according to one's 
political visions.

> I would have thought Tuvan would have had some status if the Tuvans
> of the area lived adjacent to the republic of the same name - perhaps a
> Tuvan autonomous district of some kind in one of the East Turkestan
> prefectures.

A Russian republic a country does not make.  Foreign administrative 
subdivisions don't count much, don't have their own embassies in Beijing. 
The 1000-year-old Jewish minority of Kaifeng (formerly classes as Hui or 
Han) is now semi-recognized, namely since establishment of diplomatic ties 
with Israel ...  And so the stories go.

It ain't that different in Europe, is it?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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