LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.01 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

01 December 2005 * Volume 02
=======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.11.30 (07) [E]

> From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.30 (01) [E]
>
> To Heather, Sandy, Paul and Mr. Dictum ( or should I address you as
> Obiter?)
> I read a report in a newspaper that an American publisher was going to
>
>> allow 'I would of' in future because ' so many people say and use it
>> and languages are always developing'.
>
> Yes languagues are always developing; new words are added and gradual
> grammatical shifts occur, but "would of"? In my book that is about as
> uncouth as "Me and John" and spitting in the street. So call me an old
> fogey. It makes me feel like my parents must have felt when I decided I
> liked Bach and Bartok rather than Brahms and Beethoven. It is probably
> all
> cultural. I wonder if I would feel the same way if the change was
> generated
> by the "educated" segment of the population rather than by an ignorant
> youth
> who would like to shock his parents. "Drat it Johnny eat with knife and
> fork!!"

Oh my god, did you listen to Bauhaus too??

"Me and John" is a well-known structure in English grammar - the "me"
form is used in a compound pronoun.

So, your form of argument is that you mention "would of" in the same
paragraph as something disgusting and hope we're all thick?

Perhaps the reason you can't put up a valid argument against "would of"
is that there isn't one?

Anyway, if you're going to look down your nose at other people, a hole
in the ground isn't the best place to do it from. Give us a decent argument!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Dave Singleton <davidsin at pt.lu>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.30 (13) [E]

The Of Have Debate.

It seems that the lines are being drawn here!
Is this not a case of dialect pronunciation causing a grammatical
modification !
I considers that this falls into the Wodger Wabbit (Elmer Fudd) syndrome
-- mispronuciation to start with but grudging acceptance down the line
until it has become "rootless" and gets more global acceptance but
no-one knows why, but it will be defended to the bitter end.
I would of gone --or--  I should of gone,
or any other such construction is to an English based speaker obtruse
and incorrect, because it is no longer our language and can never be
considered such again.
I will continue to use the language I learnt in a way I feel is
appropriate, and "tsk,tsk" silently when I see things in print that
would make the hair on the skull of my long deceased teacher of English
curl in disbelief.
After all American is one of the best selling/marketing languages there
is -- no ?

Dave Singleton 

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================