LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.01.27 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 27.JAN.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Georg.Deutsch at esa.int <Georg.Deutsch at esa.int>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2005.01.26 (02) [E]

Dear Reinhard,

I want to thank you for your intriguing mail about 60 years and Agate Lasch.
Excellent.
Whilst, unfortunately, I have no idea what can be done next to what you did
do already, I want to use this occasion to assure you - wellicht ten
overvloede - that not taking part actively on this forum any more (for time
constraints) does not mean at all that it is not highly appreciated, even in
the reduced passive mode.

Now I do have a question which has nothing to do with your actual subject:
You mention that Lasch "wrote her thesis on the pre-16th-century
(pre-Germanization) written language of Berlin".

I wonder, if you could elaborate this a bit. When and how has the
"Germanization" ("Verhochdeutschung"?) in Berlin taken place?
To what extent can the current Berlin Dialect be considered still as
Low-Saxon? The influence, at least,  is evident, if one can find still
today,
as I have been told,  graffiti in Berlin like:
"Leena, ick liebe dir!"

mit herzlichen Grüßen

Georg Deutsch

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Servus, Georg!

Great to hear from you!  Yes, I've missed your presence, but I did know that
you are still on the List, and I do understand that your silence is due to
lack of time.

> I wonder, if you could elaborate this a bit. When and how has the
> "Germanization" ("Verhochdeutschung"?) in Berlin taken place?
> To what extent can the current Berlin Dialect be considered still as
> Low-Saxon? The influence, at least,  is evident, if one can find still
today,
> as I have been told,  graffiti in Berlin like:
> "Leena, ick liebe dir!"

Unfortunately, I don't know all the ins and outs of this.  However, I can
summarize roughly.

Berlin began to become Germanicized first with Germanic-speaking
colonization of the then predominantly Slavonic-speaking east of what is now
Germany.  (The name is based on Slavonic *_brlo_ 'swampy land'.)  More
precisely speaking, it became linguistically Saxon, i.e., came to use Old >
Middle (Low) Saxon.  German encroached in Berlin in earnest as the Saxon
language lost influence with the decline of the Hanseatic Trading League,
namely in the 16th and 17th centuries, and at the same time Berlin began to
gain political significance.  German eventually took over throughout the
city's elite when it (or its general area) became Germany's capital and it
gained much of what power there used to be in Meissen, Dresden and Leipzig
(in the state that usurped the name "Saxony" but hasnever been
Saxon-speaking). As was typical, general Germanization operated "top-down."
The ordinary people kept using (Low) Saxon for a while, and German -- "good"
German of Meissen -- became the prestige language. So, if you wanted to be
someone, you switched from Low Saxon to _Meissenisch_.  This name, in Low
Saxon _Missingsch_, later came to denote not "High German," as originally
intended, but "deficient German of the North," German with a Low Saxon
substrate, with Low Saxon interference.  This is what happened in Berlin
rather earlier than in the other larger cities of Northern Germany, and the
Low Saxon language disappeared there altogether (except among immigrants
from rural Brandenburg).  So, even though few people actually say this,
"real" _Balinerisch_ is a type of Missingsch, a relative of the Missingsch
dialects of Hamburg, Bremen, Flensburg, Schwerin, Rostock, etc. These days,
most people in Germany are not aware of Berlin once having been
Low-Saxon-speaking, and they therefore don't realize the connection.

Features like in the sentence you used (_"Leena, ick liebe dir!_, as opposed
to Standard German _Lena, ich liebe dich!_) exemplifies two important
features of Berlin Missingsch: retention of _-k_ in certain words, and
generalizing dative and accusative as plain objective, both important
features of Low Saxon and of other Missingsch dialects.

When you look at the map of the Low Saxon area, you can see that Berlin is a
German-speaking "peninsula," surrounded in the west, north and east by
Brandenburg Low Saxon dialects.  This in itself is a highly significant
indicator.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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