LL-L "Education" 2005.07.13 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 13.JUL.2005 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From:  Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Help" 2005.07.13 (02) [E]


Msg to Heather Rendall re "Help" 2005.07.13 (020)

Heather describes the reaction of her 11-12 year old students to having to 
design a language from scratch.


Heather, I am delighted that your kids had such a ball with this exercise.

I have tried to do something similar with the mostly adult students in my 
Dutch classes at Bellevue Community College. They are all products of the 
educational system of the US and it seemed to me that if they ever had a 
(English) grammar lesson in their lives, they had forgotten all about it. 
The exception was a small group of students that had gone to a private High 
School.  I myself remember resenting all this grammar and syntax which we 
had to learn in the first and second grade of (University Preparing) High 
School. – “Did'nt I know the grammar already and had she (the teacher) ever 
caught me in a syntactical mistake?”-;  until Mrs Noteboom explained that I 
needed it for all the foreign languages which we were studying and backed it 
up with examples in Latin, Greek, English, French and German! It is also 
possible that you were working in a "window of opportunity" and that when I 
get my adult students it is much more difficult to make them understand. 
Right now our exercises take the form of imitating all the mistakes that a 
Dutchman would make when speaking English.

By the way, I did find the reprint of the NYT article by Stanley Fish, 
called Devoid of Content. Somebody had borrowed it and brought it back. So 
here is the link: 
http://nytimes.com/2005/05/31/opinion/31fish.html?ei=5090&en=5b9064f5bb67f352&ex=1

Met vriendelijke groeten. Jacqueline



From:  heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>

Subject: LL-L "Help" 2005.07.12 (01) [E]



Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET

>who teaches a class in Creative Writing, by having his students

design a language from scratch.<



I once did this with 4  classes of Year 7 ( aged 11-12 year olds) pupils

when we had overshot the curriculum for that year.



I had to keep very acute notes on decisions made by each class, as they all

made different decisions - tho' the one that was universal was the

agreement that an inflected language was more precise than a non-inflected

and they all chose to build patterns of inflections to carry various

meanings.



One group even decided to dispense with prepositions because they reasoned

if you have a fixed pattern of endings with prepositional meanings, why do

you need separate prepositional words! Once they had decided on their

inflections/meanings, I  informed them that they had just re-invented Latin

! They were surprised because their understanding was that Latin was

'difficult' but that their system as just devised was clear, obvious and

straightforward!    Out of the mouths of babes!!!!!



When we were discussing the merits or non-merits of gender and agreement,

one class quite liked the idea of agreement of number, so that you didn't

have to wait until the end of a phrases to hear whether it was singular or

plural    The big grey catS      .



One boy suggested however that we might like to differentiate between live

and dead objects rather than a seemingly random gender allocation. When I

asked him to expand on the idea, he said " Well if a tree was Ta tree ( for

the tree) it could be Ti  tree once it was cut down and become wood and you

wouldn't need the word for 'wood'  "   The class grabbed hold of this idea

instantly and suggested other useful pairings: Ta smile = genuine smile  Ti

smile = forced smile    Ta dinner = Mum's Sunday roast   Ti dinner = school

dinner     Ta friend = buddy   Ti friend = false friend   etc etc.



I thought this was a brilliant idea and convinced me that anyone who

suggests that children don't like talking about  language structure or that

they can't understand grammar, need to re-think. These (very) mixed ability

children were perfectly capable of,  and delighted in, inventing a new

language and discussing all the possible functions needed to express what

ever they wanted to say.



Heather

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Education

Hey, Jacqueline!

I didn't even know that BCC offers Dutch!  Gee!  *Now* you tell me, now that 
I have a foot out the door and don't get to enroll and disrupt your classes. 
What a lucky escape you had!    ;-)

Groeten,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================