LL-L "Pronomina" 2005.06.16 (07) [E]

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Pronomina" 2005.05.15 (04) [E]

Dear Sandy:

Subject: "Language varieties"

> Perhaps Shakespeare was living at a time when both modes of speech were
> used

Well, Sandy, I rather expect he lived in a community at a time that the
'You' form was still deferential speech, & had not yet acquired the degree
of formality that allowed it to drive the 'Thee' form out of familiar usage.

I for my part admire the social & contextual versatility of languages that
use a deferential form. Sadly, some insist on crushing into a 'dialect' box
forms of language that for example still use 'thee' in intimate address, but
what are equally at home with the 'you' in a formal context. & some who know
only the 'you' form, as e.g. RP English, will not concede the depth
inclusive of what they call 'DIALECT'! 'Nuff ranting.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pronomina


"By the time of Shakespeare, _you_ had developed the number ambiguity it
retains today, being used for either singular or plural; but in the singular
it also had a role as an alternative to _thou / thee_. It was used by people
of lower rank or status to those above them (such as ordinary people to
nobles, children to parents, servants to masters, nobles to the monarch),
and was also the standard way for the upper classes to talk to each other.
By contrast, _thou / thee_ were used by people of higher rank to those
beneath them, and by the lower classes to each other; also, in elevated
poetic style, in addressing God, and in talking to witches, ghosts, and
other supernatural beings. There were also some special cases: for example,
a husband might address his wife as _thou_, and she reply with _you_.

"Of particular interest are those cases where an extra emotional element
entered the situation, and the use of _thou_ or _you_ broke the expected
conventions. _Thou_ commonly expressed special intimacy or affection; _you_,
formality, politeness, and distance. _Thou_ could also be used, even by an
inferior to a superior, to express such feelings as anger and contempt. The
use of _thou_ to a person of equal rank could thus easily count as an
insult, as Sir Toby Belch well knows when he advises Sir Andrew Aguecheek on
how to write a challenge to 'the Count's youth' (Viola): 'if thou thou'st
him some thrice, it shall not be amiss' (_Twelfth Night_, III.ii.42),
himself using a demeaning _thou_ in a speech situation where the norm is
_you_. Likewise, the use of _you_ when _thou_ was expected (such as from
master to servant) would also require special explanation."

          -- _The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language_,
          ed. David Crystal (CUP: 1995), p. 71

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