LL-L "Etymology" 2005.06.23 (04) [E/LS]

Thu Jun 23 22:16:06 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at masked.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.06.23 (03) [E]

Hi, Ronni,

You wrote:

> sutje (<Suttje>) ["zUtje] (with "u" as in "put") 'chimney sweep'
> suutje ["zu:tje] (with "u" as in "rule" or "food") 'nice and easy',
> 'gently'
Perhaps- people should pronounce it this way, but they really don't, after
all my experience.

> I strongly suspect another two words to be Dutch loans that have made
> their
> way quite far east:
>
> butje (<Buttje>) (cf. Dutch _botje_) "little butt (fish)" = 'little boy',
> 'urchin', 'squirt'
What about E: _buddy_? In its meaning (for my humble opinion) closer to
'buttje'.

Things happen: just in this minute my son told me about his English
vocabulary.  One of his words (besides 'tiger', 'lion', 'elephant'...) was
'budgy' for 'budgerigar'- as his English teacher had told him. I myself
didn't know this word at all, but I became very awake when he told me with
same breath, that the friend of his mom (born and grewn up in Hadeln, the
region I live in, but not 'confessing' Lowlandic) was using 'Buttje' for all
little birds.

>>From a dutch fish to a LS bird?? A flying fish, at last *grin*?

Ha, Ron-buddy??! You are a bird by Your surname; don't change to a cold
fish, please *g*!

Special regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at masked.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.06.23 (03) [E]

Leeve Reinhard,

vöör een Stood heff ick Dii (opp Sassisch.yahoo) anschreeven, Du möögst mool
dat 'Nordkehding' opp 'uns' Anniversary Site tou 'Nordkehding*EN*'
affännern. Schall woll noch koomen....

Nu will ick Dii anners wat vertell'n, hangt door mit tohoup:
siit 'n Stücker wat Joorn leev ick nu in 't Land Hodeln, man- bour'n un'
opwussen bün ick in Nordkehdingen, un' dat liggt door ne wiit von aff,
grenzt dooran.
Mi dücht, de Noordkehdingers koomt toun gröttern Deel ouk uut Hodeln, in
jemmer Orsprong, un' jüst sou jemmer sprooklich' Wuddeln.

Man- nu stell Dii inns vöör, wat ick mii wunnert heff, as mi de Hodelners
bipuhlen wull'n, wat dat LS: 'Böö'_n_' (G: 'Dachboden', 'oberer Innenteil
eines Gebäudes', E: 'loft') heeiten dee, un' ne, as ick dat jümmer glöövt
haar, 'Böö'_m_'.
Man- nu koomt dat: vöör'n Stood snack' ick mol weller mit 'n gouden, oulen
Frünnen uut miin allerneichste Heimat- un' hei sei ook 'Böö'm'. Un' dat heet
*Böö'm* bii uns, un all me Leev ne 'Böö'n'!

Un' koom mi ne weller mit 'Jonny un' siin spezi-ellen reschionool'n
Dialekt'!! De Lüüd uut miin oule Heimat hannen jemmer 'Platt' deeilwiis
beeter oppe Reigh as dat woll annerwärts is. Von oule Tiiden her is dat 'n
Insel ween, un' ne wiit aff weer dat Mour.
De Hodelners sünd jümmer wat meer open ween, hannen heel verscheeden'
Lanns'herrn (e.g., dat hett ouk mool tou Hamburg höört) un billen sick
düchdig wat in opp jemmer 'Globalität'.

Mi dücht, 'Böö'm' is dichter an E: 'bottom', AS: 'bothom' un öller as
'Böö'n'.

Ick sei dat all opp mii dool koomen- nu koomst Du un' mookst door weller wat
uut, *g*!
Un' glöövst mii weller ne, wat ick mennigmool 'n Süd- von een Nordkehdinger
all an siin 'R' ruuthöörn kann.

Or- schullst Du uutnoomswiis mol opp miin Siid ween :-)?

Allerbest' Greutens

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

PS: Magst Dii opp'e Achterbeen stell'n- ick loot ne von miin oulen 'Böö'm'
aff, dat kann ick Dii nu all seggen! DS

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at masked.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.06.22 (04) [E/LS]

Ick schreyv:

LS 'Sottje'...

> ... Dat Wourd meynt ook G: 'Ruß', 'Rückstände', ,Verunreinigung', verwandt
an
> ,Sud', ,Satz' (beim Kaffee), E: ,residue', ['coffee] grounds'. 'Sott'
> schall woll verwandt ween an LS: 'Sood', G: 'Brunnen', E: 'soda [water]'.

Grouten Bloydsinn! De Stamm und Oorsprong van dat Wourd is 'Sott', un' dat
hevv ick nu' meynt.

Sorry.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Jonny (above):

> Perhaps- people should pronounce it this way, but they really don't, after
> all my experience.

What?!  I've never heard those two pronounced alike.  It must be a
peculiarity of your area (one of many, I'm sure ... ;-) )

> > butje (<Buttje>) (cf. Dutch _botje_) "little butt (fish)" = 'little
> > boy',
> > 'urchin', 'squirt'
> What about E: _buddy_? In its meaning (for my humble opinion) closer to
> 'buttje'.

Nope.  "Buddy" comes from "bud" which is supposed to have started as
children's babble for "brother."

English has "butt" for some types of flat fish too, though these days mostly
in compounds, such as "halibutt".

> From a dutch fish to a LS bird?? A flying fish, at last *grin*?

We've talked about this in a past era  ... B.J. ("before Jonny").
"Budgerigar" (American English "parakeet," German _Wellensittich_, Dutch
_grasparkiet_, zool. _Melopsittacus undulatus_) comes from Australian
English which got it from an (which?) Australian Aborigine language
(_gijirrigaa_), and it came to be "shortened" to "budgie."  I believe that,
in the course of contacts between Hamburg and England, English "budgie" and
(Dutch >) Low Saxon _butje_ (<Buttje>) came to be "married," and North
German budgerigars got the personal name Buttje by default.  One of my
sisters-in-law (in Hamburg) uses _Buttje_ as a noun for "budgerigar," while
in my family we use it only as a calling name.

Male Hamburg natives are called _Buttje_, or _Hamburger Buttje_ ("Hamburg
Lad").  Et c'est petit joli moi, n'est-ce pas ?  I guess this goes with my
nickname "parrot head" (received because of my Pomeranian grandfather's
round head DNA and because of my obsessive linguistic mimicking).

> Ha, Ron-buddy??! You are a bird by Your surname; don't change to a cold
> fish, please *g*!

Now, Jonny, o Jonny, my dear fellow, I am afraid it is time for the talk,
for the widely dreaded lecture about my surname, because this "bird" myth
(not to mention myths about derived unmentionables) *must* be debunked here
and now, once and forever -- and forever thou shalt hold thine piece ... uh
... peace.

I have you know in no uncertain terms that both of my names are good Old
Saxon ones.  Hahn -- having taken on the dreaded German spelling -- comes
from _Haan_ (being spelled <(de) Haan> in the Netherlands), which is not the
same as _haan_ for "rooster" but is a contracted version of _Hagen_,
originally denoting a settler by the _haag_ (English "haw"), something like
a "grove" ("haw" > "hawthorn").

Besides, people may worry about me becoming this and that and the other, but
they need never worry about me turning cold ... well, at least not as long
as I am breathing.

You may now consider yourself duly enlightened.

> vöör een Stood heff ick Dii (opp Sassisch.yahoo) anschreeven, Du möögst
> mool
> dat 'Nordkehding' opp 'uns' Anniversary Site tou 'Nordkehding*EN*'
> affännern. Schall woll noch koomen....

Velen dank vör 't an-stoeten.  Dat bruuk ik af un an.

> PS: Magst Dii opp'e Achterbeen stell'n- ick loot ne von miin oulen 'Böö'm'
> aff, dat kann ick Dii nu all seggen! DS

Dyn _boem_ kanst, tousamen mit Dyn snaaksch snakkenen Nourdkedinger makkers,
geyrn hebben un beholden. Den stryd' ik Dy nich af.  In annere dialekten
givt dat "boen" (< "boden" 'attic', 'loft') un "bodden" ('bottom (of a
sea/lake/hole)'), un dat is nich eyn un dat sülve.  Daar kanst Dy drayen un
etymoloogsch vischen un vydeln as Du wult.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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