LL-L "Grammar" 2005.03.03 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.03.02 (04) [D/E]

Re "progressive mood"
I was wondering if the progressive mood in English, which is not used in
the other Germanic (or Romance) languages is a loan-construction from
British/Celtic? I don't know a lot about Celtic, but I remember that e.g
Welsh always uses a kind of progressive mood, something like:
am I in work = I'm working
is he in eat = he's eating
are we in go to school = we go to school
etc.

Does (did) it exist in Cornish and Breton too, and in Irish and Gaelic?
Or would it be possible that Celtic borrowed it from English?

Ingmar


I wrote myself:
>
>Thanks Jacqueline
>You made it very clear to me. What you said about the Dutch painting with
>the language made me think that these constructions are a kind of
>progressive mood as well.
>
>in stead of "ik eet" lit. I eat, we say "ik zit te eten" lit. I sit and
>eat = I am eating
>in stead of "hij zeurt" lit. he nags, we say "hij loopt te zeuren" lit. he
>walks and nags = he is nagging, or "hij ligt te zeuren" lit. he lies and
>nags, even if he isn't sitting, walking or lying at all.
>
>I'm curious if the same happens in Belgium Dutch, in Afrikaans and Low
>Saxon in Germany too.
>Ingmar
>
>Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong schreef:
>
>>Nog een ding.. .. Is het je ooit opgevallen dat de Nederlanders spreken
>>alsof ze aanâ?Tt schilderen zijn ( progressive mode! )?
>>
>>Niemand in Nederland zegt â?ode melk is op de tafelâ? dat is veel te
vaag.
>De
>>schilder ziet de melkfles op de tafel staan en hij zegt â?oDe melk
staat op
>de
>>tafelÃ,´ Een boek staat of ligt in de kas naarmate het in een vertikaal
of
>>horizontaal vlak staat. En natuurlijk zit je geld in je portemonnaie
omdat
>>het daar in besloten is.  Je zit in de gevangenis ( er is geen plaats
>genoeg
>>voor iets anders. We spreken zelfs van â?~zittenâ?T voor het
veroordeeld
>zijn
>>voor gevangenisstraf.
>>
>>Zo dat is het dan weer voor de les van vandaag. Vriendelijke groeten van
>de
>>schooljuf

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From: James Campbell <james at zolid.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.03.02 (04) [D/E]

Ingmar eskrë »

> in stead of "ik eet" lit. I eat, we say "ik zit te eten" lit. I sit and
> eat = I am eating
> in stead of "hij zeurt" lit. he nags, we say "hij loopt te zeuren" lit. he
> walks and nags = he is nagging, or "hij ligt te zeuren" lit. he lies and
> nags, even if he isn't sitting, walking or lying at all.
>
> I'm curious if the same happens in Belgium Dutch, in Afrikaans and Low
> Saxon in Germany too.

I don't know about those langs, but it's common in Norwegian. One can use
similar constructions to indicate a continuous aspect, e.g. «Jeg sitter og
spiser» - I am eating (I sit and eat); «Han lå og leste avisen» - He was
reading the paper (He laid and read...). So I guess it may be a common
Germanic trait... but would be interested to be proved wrong :)

James

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
James Campbell
james at zolid.com  www.zolid.com
Boring, but a cool boring.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

In Low Saxon, a common way of expressing progression is to use _... {be} by
tou {infinitive}_ (<... {be} bi to {infinitive}>); e.g.,

Ik bün by tou lesen.
(I'm (busy) reading)

Sey was by dat eten tou kaken.
(She was (busy) cooking (luch/dinner).)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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