LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.05.18 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Politics

Hi all

David (Clarke) wrote:
"Does English really have a "plethora of dialects" as opposed to a variety
of accents?"

It's the age old question - where does an accent
finish and a dialect start (as with where does a
dialect finish and a language start)?

I personally think of an accent as being purely a
difference in pronunciation, but otherwise using
exactly the same grammar. This means using the same
phonology, syntax etc. However taking "standard"
southern England English or "standard" American
English as a base - both of which being different
dialects, as there are differences on all levels of
the language - if you say singin' instead of singing,
it's a different grammar - or if you say 'I was sat'
instead of 'I was sitting', it's a different grammar -
or if you say 'we might could have' instead of 'we
might have been able to', it's a different grammar
etc. These could all be classed as different dialects
from the respective standards. However if you
pronounce the t in 'putting' as a flap, or as a
glottal stop it's using a different accent. However,
with this in mind we probably all speak different
dialects from each other.

There are of course dialects which differ quite
substantially from each other in that they have lots
of places in their grammars which diverge - these are
then clearly dialects, but if you class your own
dialect as belonging to a bigger 'umbrella' dialect
then that's your own choice.

The dialect I speak is very similar to the standard
Southern English dialect, however I recognise that
there are a lot of places where the grammars diverge -
most significantly with phonology, then syntax and
finally lexicon (with very few differences from the
standard) - which is why I class it as Estuary
English, and not Standard. But saying that, the
Estuary I speak coming from the London / Essex border
is different from the Estuary some of my friends speak
coming from Northeast Hampshire, however I would class
them both as Estuary.

I feel that the difference between a dialect and a
language is also a matter of personal preference. If
someone says that what they speak is a different
language, and not just a different dialect, then who
am I to contradict them - we've got to respect their
feelings too.

Gary

http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi, Gary!

I think you'd get a variety of interpretations of that, depending on what
people find important.  Phonologists, for instance, tend to call different
phonological systems "dialects" also.

As far as I am concerned, any discreet set of rules makes up a dialect.
This includes phonological rules, not only morphological, syntactic and
lexcial rules.  After all, a phonology can be defined as being a set of
rules that determines phonetic output.  Not just the sounds differ but also
the presence, absence, motivation and sequence of rules.  This is why I
usually write "accent" in quotation marks, and this is why to me
particularly England, or Britain generally, has an abundance of English
dialects.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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