LL-L "Music" 2005.05.28 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.MAY.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "ARVID & CINDY HUISMAN" <HUISMANIOWA at MSN.COM>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.27 (01) [E]

When I was a child, my East Frisian family used the term "dudelsack" to
refer to an accordion or similar "squeezebox" musical instrument. Is this
a common usage of the term or did my family not understand musical
instruments?

Arvid Huisman
Ankeny, Iowa USA

Johann Sebastian Bach seemed to think so too.
In his wonderful 'Peasant Cantata' he has his peasants end it with
(roughly translated) "Let us go to the Inn where the dudelsack
sounds, Hey Loorie, loorie, loorie, loorie, loorie ley.' Never came
across any real good Scots word for them, normally we just refer to
them as 'ra pipes'.

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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: Music

Flanders has indeed its own bagpipes.
It looks like this:
http://static.marktplaza.nl/images/1/Vlaamse-doedelzak-564866.jpg

It's still widely being used in Flemish folk, but as I'm not really deep
into that I can't tell more yet, maybe I can ask my father (who is a good
folk musician himself) or my sister (who also started playing folk
recently, and goes to a lot of concerts and balls) when I see them next
time, probably I'll know more by wednesday.
I remember a painting by Brueghel with some players in them. (Detail:
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/brueghel.dance.jpg)
About Walloon bagpipes I have no idea though. Do they exist?

If you can read Dutch, there's this site with the history of some folk
instruments, among them the "doedelzak".
http://www.antenna.nl/draailier-doedelzak/instrumentengeschiedenis.html

P.S. I know some good Flemish bagpipe players too, and I think my uncle
(Philipe Masure) plays them as well although he usually plays the guitar.

>My question is if bagpipes were traditionally used in the Continental
>Lowlands.  I remember seeing Flemish and Dutch renaissance art featuring
>dancers and bagpipe players.  This seems to point into that direction.
>Was this as a part of a Europe-wide spread or a temporary importation from
>Walloon- and French-speaking areas, or perhaps a part of a westward spread
>from Slavonic areas?  Are there any clues?
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Music" 2005.05.27 (01) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>My question is if bagpipes were traditionally used in the Continental
Lowlands.  I remember seeing Flemish and Dutch renaissance art featuring
dancers and bagpipe players.  This seems to point into that direction.
Was this as a part of a Europe-wide spread or a temporary importation from
Walloon- and French-speaking areas, or perhaps a part of a westward spread
from Slavonic areas?  Are there any clues?<

The Celts played bagpipes - and so did / do the Greeks - who also have a
tradition of men wearing finely pleated 'skirts'.
Perhaps some traditions are more widely spread / common than one first
thinks!

By the way my ancient Sprachbrockhaus on the origin of Dudlesack  says "
vermutlich türkisch"n   Now there's an interesting tangent!
and also by the way it gives 4 means of 'Degen' the 4th of which =  Held,
Gefolgsmann eines Fürsten ( germanisches Stammwort) whereas Degen = dagger
they have coming from old French

Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Music

Heather (above):

> and so did / do the Greeks - who also have a
> tradition of men wearing finely pleated 'skirts'.

You find the "skirt" of the Greek _ephzones_ in various permutations
throughout the Balkans, usually with pants worn underneath.  If there is
any Celtic link is questionable, though not impossible.  They could also
be of Slavonic origin, given that Greek soldiers often came from Macedonia
and beyond, and given the spread throughout the Balkans and into various
folk costumes of Eastern Europe.  As far as I am concerned, men's "skirts"
are merely a (shorter) version of the ancient cassocks men used to wear
all over Europe. Their developments may very well be coincidental.

> By the way my ancient Sprachbrockhaus on the origin of
> Dudlesack  says "
> vermutlich türkisch"n   Now there's an interesting tangent!

If there is really a Turkish link it may be a case of a pre-Turkish
Anatolian, possibly Greek, cultural substrate that came to be Turkicized.
The same may well be true of Turkish military trumpets.  I am not aware of
any form of bagpipes in Central Asia, which is from where the Turkic
ancestors of today's Turks reached Anatolia, Thrace, etc.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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