LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.24 (01) [E]

Thu Nov 24 21:12:48 UTC 2005

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23 November 2005 * Volume 01
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Languagevarieties" 2005.11.23 (04) [E]

I wrote:
  "Considering only around 20 per cent of Aboriginal people actually speak
any sort
of Aboriginal language or creole, it does only apply to the Outback. The more
remote you go, particularly in northwards, the more likely you are to find
speakers of Aboriginal languages, and multi-lingual ones at that."

  This is an over-simplification. There are speakers of Aboriginal
languages in
urban centres, but the languages are strongest in Outback areas and in no
capital
city (i.e., Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Hobart, Darwin,
Canberra) is
there even a ward in which Aboriginal languages are in the majority.
Speakers of
Aboriginal languages are, however, well represented in Outback towns,
particularly
Alice Springs.

  Maps of the numbers and proportions of Aboriginal language speakers by
indigenous
locations according to the 1996 Australian census can be found at
http://www.deh.gov.au/soe/techpapers/languages/indicator1g.html#map5

  Go raibh maith agat,

  Críostóir.

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From: "Mark Dreyer" <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Languagevarieties" 2005.11.23 (04) [E]

Dear Vlad & Ron:

Subject: Language Varieties.

Well, having enlarged on that, what about the Afrikaans, Lee / Li / Rhee?

Groete,
Mark

P.S. Ron, anyone, is there any way to get an all(IT)terrain Hangul font? And
Rron, I unfortunately got your note on the Magyar Runes. can you help me
again?

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From: "Obiter Dictum" <obiterdictum at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Languagevarieties" 2005.11.23 (04) [E]

> Well, I can understand the "coincidence" of objective pronoun use, perhaps
> because it's more "marked," more "prominent" (?)
Perhaps so:). Also, when Russians parody disparagingly Central Asians (or
Asians in general) they’s say, “Moya tvoya ne ponimay” (Mine don’t
understand [imperative!] thine). Incidentally; I don’t see Cyrillic
characters
in this post of yours:)

> > from "paren'", "young fellow")!
> What's this one used for?  Also as a "counter" or adjectival marker?
> (E.g., Tokpisin _dispela haus_ 'this house', _waitpela haus_ 'white
> house', _tripela haus_ 'three houses').
Both, it seems. I heard this once from a very-very old Chinaman in
the Dersu Uszala land, who counted trees that way (hou pa-lia san).
>
> Didn't I hear that variety spoken in the Oscar-winning movie
> _Dersu Uzala_ (п п я я я 
пёп п п п ) by Akira Kurosawa (about
Russian
> soldiers and a Nanai -- "Goldi" being bye-bye now -- hunter)?
>
Precisely. Not exactly soldiers--they were Ussuri Cossacks led
by a captain of the geodetic service (which was a military service
at the time). Only Dersu said “lyudi” (people)--the plural for objects,
singular
or plural.
>
> Folks, in case you are *still* mystified about Vlad, bear in mind that
> there are sizeable Korean minority communities not only in China but also
> in what used to be the Soviet Union, particularly in Kazakhstan.
There used to be even more in Uzbekistan. Stalin relocated the Koreans
from the Far East to Central Asia in cattle railcars, before and after
WWII. Oddly, the Korean population of Southern Sakhalin (brought
by the Japanese as laborers) remained intact.
>
> However, had he spelled it <Li> there would have still been the
> possibility that he was a descendant of the Dungan community that is also
> particularly concentrated in Kazakhstan (besides China).
No, it’s Korean:)

> Hey, Vlad, talkin' about "Dungan" ... Any chance of organizing a Dungan
> translation and/or some other juicy translations for our anniversary
> project (http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/)?  Just askin' innocently.
Mm-mm.. Sorry--Don’t think I can help. I’m a Sakhalin Korean, don’t
know a word Dungan--haven’t even seen a Dungan in my life:)
>
> And here's the answer to your question ...
>
> It's :/
Do you mean just colon? But doesn’t it look almost precisely like full-
length mark? Only the dots are small black triangles:)

Vlad:)
[Lee]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hey again, Vlad!

Yep, that _ljudy_ was the one that stuck in my memory after all those
years.  Fascinating the similarities! I should check in my old notes if
there's anything like it in Nanai and Evenki (of which I took a year each
millennia ago).

> Mm-mm.. Sorry--Don’t think I can help. I’m a Sakhalin Korean, don’t
> know a word Dungan--haven’t even seen a Dungan in my life:)

Aha!  But don't even dream of getting off that easily, bud!  We'd be quite
happy with Sakhalin Korean, Evenki or Nivkh, and whatever else you're
around these days and whatever people you can pester.  ;-)

> No, it’s Korean:)

*Yours* is, but it comes from Chinese 李 Li (plumtree), if you like
it or not.  ;-)

> > It's :/
> Do you mean just colon? But doesn’t it look almost precisely like full-
> length mark? Only the dots are small black triangles:)

I must refer you to our friend Dave below, all the way to Peru, because I
seem to be incorrigible in this case.  Why should I hate *you*, Dave?  You
must be about the most patient and forgiving teacher your students could
possibly wish for.

Regards, and happy Thanksgiving to all of our (US) American friends far
and wide (including myself for the first official time)!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: "David Barrow" <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.23 (01) [E]

>>P.S. Sorry, I didn't know where to ask this, I had a look on the website
>>but couldn't find any info, so here we are. is there a guide to the
>>ascii transcription that is used on this list to render IPA?
>
>http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/home.htm
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron
>
or

http://conlang.eusebeia.dyndns.org/ipa/xsamchart.png

David Barrow

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From: "David Barrow" <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.11.23 (04) [E]

>>Thanks for the link, Ron. BTW, any idea as to how to denote positional
>>"half length"
>>in vowels (and in consonants, for that matter)?
>
>Yep. You're asking the "right" person (as our David Barrow will confirm)!
>
>It's :/
>
>(It took me long enough to learn this one and do Dave proud.)
>
>Cheerio!
>Reinhard/Ron
>
Ron,

You're going to hate me for this but.... it's :\  - with a back slash. A
forward slash opens and closes a phoneme but don't worry you're getting
there (you should do what I do: check a conversion chart every time you
need a symbol you don't often use) :-)

David Barrow

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