L-L "Language learning" 2005.11.27 (02) [E]

Sun Nov 27 19:01:53 UTC 2005

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 27 November 2005 * Volume 2
======================================================================

From: "Tom Mc Rae" <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.26 (02) [E]

On 27/11/2005, at 4:59 AM, "heather rendall"
<HeatherRendall at compuserve.com> wrote:
>>
> My question: why don't they learn (in English, at the moment) phonetic
> spelling and writing, as we did in our times some fourty years ago?<

Beacuse the Powers that be are Educationalists NOT Teachers.
I still recall the 1940's baby class where Im learned that Fanny's
funny feather went 'ffffffff'.
And Gas in globe goes 'g'.
That basis started me on my long journey of wonder in books.
Nowadays I find many young folks have difficulties in reading a page
of text let alone a book.

Regards
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us
Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us
Robert Burns

----------

From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.26 (02) [E]

Thanks, Heather and Paul,

Heather:
> Foreign language teachers have reported noting a better understanding of
> words such as preposition and adverb and that pupils are no longer so
> fazed
> by being asked about verbs and tenses etc etc
Isn't it great for our little ones? Isn't it beautiful just to babble
anything sounding like English, but not being able to recognize the
difference between '[I] have/[he] has'?
I remember some pupils of my own examination-class having been unable to get
the Future II tense into their minds, though we had Latin as the second
foreign language.
But- what the hell will happen today? 'Mut zur LÃ¼cke', just annoying the
existence of grammatical rules?

> However this has to be taught by
> teachers who themselves were educated in a system such as was prevalent in
> the 60s of " Don't use a red pen to mark - it's too aggressive and might
> hurt their feelings; after all they have tried their best" " Don't correct
> their spellings: it will discourage them and put them off writing. Rather
> praise them for having tried to spell after their own fashion" " No-one
> speaks any language badly; they all speak their own dialect perfectly"
The 60s, I agree, perhaps were the dusk-time of substantial, methodical
learning, which I'm missing now (but I don't remember any teacher having
been afraid of using his red pen ;-).
Oh- I see: you're talking about the education of teachers of my age, their
university training. The so-called '68s', the hippie-generation, something
obviously having spread out over the whole western world.
Everything suspected to be conservative blindly had to be changed.

Paul:
> I have just been reading in the "Daily
> Mail"
> that schools in England will be going back to doing exactly that.  They
> have
> decided (after ruining the learning prospects of who knows how many kids
> for
> decades) that the alternatives aren't working.
Yes- the swing-back, and it's the same going on in Germany. In some aspects
even overshooting the aim, I fear.

But- maybe there's some hope for the future of our (grand-)children! In any
case pupils have to buckle down to work, again (LS: 'sey mÃ¶Ã¶t sick
weller op
jemmer BÃ¼xenbÃ¶'m setten'= 'They have to sit down again on the bottom of
their trousers').

Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: "heather rendall" <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.26 (02) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>
My question: why don't they learn (in English, at the moment) phonetic
spelling and writing, as we did in our times some fourty years ago?<

Do you want the hellfires of Reception Class & Primary Inspectors to fall
on my head!

Whatever tack I take in answer to your question, you can be sure one school
of thought will feel offended / left out/ dismissed/ belittled / ignored or
just plain angry!

Here goes and I will try and just be factual and as objective as possible
(?!)

The New Literacy Strategy now supports mixed teaching of reading but with
an emphasis [for the first time in many years for some poeple] of linking
sounds and blends etc to spelling.
There is still an amount of ' Look and recognise the shape of a word' as it
is argued English spelling doesn't lend itself to learning sounds and
applying them wholesale. BUt much of what is being recommended is based on
phonics ( not phonetics) and getting pupils to stoer correct / useful /
common graphemes from the outset of learning.

One thing is certain  ( I can feel those hellfires getting nearer ) that
there is a greater than before emphasis on the fact that pupils SHOULD be
able to spell and write grammatically. However this has to be taught by
teachers who themselves were educated in a system such as was prevalent in
the 60s of " Don't use a red pen to mark - it's too aggressive and might
hurt their feelings; after all they have tried their best" " Don't correct
their spellings: it will discourage them and put them off writing. Rather
praise them for having tried to spell after their own fashion" " No-one
speaks any language badly; they all speak their own dialect perfectly"

This has allowed pupils to pass through the edication system and still be
unable to write clear precise English; they can come out with ahndfuls of
exams in which examiners ahve - until now - ignored inaccuracies of
spelling and grammar.

This has been descried by employers continually

Foreign language teachers have reported noting a better understanding of
words such as preposition and adverb and that pupils are no longer so fazed
by being asked about verbs and tenses etc etc
But it is by no means uniform even after 5-6 years............. but it does
a[ppear as though in some areas at least more children are learning to
read, who would previously not made the grade at all.

Hope this answers your question

Heather

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================