LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.08 (03) [D/E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 08 October 2005 * Volume 03
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From: Floor en Lyanne van Lamoen <fvanlamoen at planet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.07 (11) [E]

Beste Reinhard,

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Kevin, above you mentioned "lollipop," in some English-speaking areas
> (apparently all outside the U.S.) abbreviated to "lolly."  I suppose
> German
> and Low Saxon made it into _Lolli_, meaning "lollipop," a candy (sweet) on
> a
> stick.  Apparently, the origin of the word is not known, but it is assumed
> to have originated in child's language.  What is also interesting is that
> in
> English varieties of Australia and New Zealand "lolly" means what in
> American English is candy (without sticks), though usually excluding
> things
> like chocolate bars (which in US English can also be "candy").

Het Nederlands kent ook het woord lolly. Typisch zo'n geglobaliseerd Engels
woord zou ik zeggen. Ik heb wel eens gehoord dat dit te maken zou hebben met
een betekkenis van Eng. "Lolly" = tong en "to loll"= uit de mond hangen.

> And then there's "candy."  It's related to German _Kandis_ or
> _Kandiszucker_, in some areas _Kandelzucker_ (_Zucker_ 'sugar').  The
> German
> word(s) and originally also the English word mean "crystallized sugar"
> (but
> in American English extended to "sweets").  In the early days after its
> adoption in German-speaking areas, it was known as _Zuckerkandi(t)_, and
> in
> some dialects it is still known as _Zuckerkand(is)_.  Most Low Saxon
> dialects of Germany have adopted the German words, but in Eastern
> Friesland
> it is known by an unrelated word (though semantically related one, as we
> will see later): _kluntje_ ~ _klüntje_, which I assume alludes to pieces
> or
> lumps.

Het Nederlands kent ook het woord kandijsuiker, dan gaat het om van die
grote bruine kristallen. Een suikerklontje of klontje (inderdaad in de
betekenis van een stukje) is kubus- of balkvormig stukje aan elkaar geplakte
witte kristalsuiker.

De algemene naam voor "candy" in het Nederlands is "snoep". Maar heel harde
snoepjes waar je lang op kan sabbelen hebben de curieuze naam "zuurtje"
(sour). Er zijn inderdaad varianten met citroenzuur, maar ook puur zoete
harde snoepjes heten zo. Ze zijn er ook in de vorm van een stok, en dan
heten ze zuurstokken. En zoet dat ze zijn!

Groeten,
Floor.

----------

From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.07 (11) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>(a "binky" in English baby talk<

More usually known as a 'dummy'.

I have never come across 'binky'. Sounds like a family word to me -
invented by children and taken up by adults because they're kind of cute.

In our house strawberries were 'Joes'    from my daughter trying aged 2 to
say 'straw......;: stairs were the 'golly-golly-gar' - we think because of
the effort of climbing them and the exhalation of relief once at the top!

and Thank You became Tchümm having mixed with Tchüs and Thank you. My
husband 30 years later is still know to automatically use Tchümm to the
children (pardon - adults)

Heather

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ha, die Floor!  Long time no hear!

> De algemene naam voor "candy" in het Nederlands is "snoep".

In "Oostersch" Low Saxon it tends to be _snabbel-kraam_ (<Snabbelkraam>, 
German _Süßigkeit(en)_) -- so it's "_snabbel_-stuff."  In some dialects you 
also get _snubbel-kraam_ (<Snubbelkraam>) and the verb _snubbeln_, probably 
a case of labial assimilation.  (My wife has adopted "to schnubbel" [SnUb=l] 
for "to eat" as a part of our English-based home lingo.)  I suspect that 
these words are derived from or inspired by German _schnabulieren_ 'to enjoy 
(food)', a jocularly invented "foreign" word based on _Schnabel_ 'beak' 
(related to MidSax _sneb_ > ModLS_snep_ ~ _snip_, German _Schnepfe_ and 
English _snipe_, to Dutch _nep_ and English "nib" 'point', 'beak' (without 
the prefix _s-_), and also to LS _snappen_, German _Schnappen_, English 
"snap," also "snippy," "nab," "nip," etc.).  So I assume that Dutch _snoep_ 
(labial assimilation /i/ -> /u/) is related to this group of words.

Heather:

> More usually known as a 'dummy'.

Ah, yes!  I forgot about that one.  And what a wide range of meanings this 
word has (but I won't go into that in this installment)!  I *have* heard 
"dummy" used in the sense of "pacifier" a few times in North America, more 
often in Australia, as a semi-formal word for "pacifier" -- and as the usual 
word in Britain, of course.  But, interestingly, I have been hearing "binky" 
used quite often in both areas, and "binky" tends to be listed on lists of 
Australian words (e.g., http://library.thinkquest.org/28994/auswords.html), 
and it is also listed as American English (e.g., 
http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/retort.cgi?American=binky), though the _OED_ 
does not list it.  (In actual fact, I just submitted it.)  It may have 
originated in babytalk, but it has gone beyond that now, has even taken on 
international status.

> invented by children and taken up by adults because they're kind of cute.

Sure, but some of them "make it," as you can see.  ;-)

> stairs were the 'golly-golly-gar' - we think because of
> the effort of climbing them and the exhalation of relief once at the top!

I love that one!  I vote for "mainstreaming" it.

And then we could lead future etymologists off the track by spreading the 
rumor that it originated in Gamilaraay (an Australian language of Northern 
New South Wales and Southern Queensland), derived from _galiy-galiy gaa_ 
'(European-style) stairs', based on _galiyaa-y_ 'to climb' and _gaa-gi_ 'to 
carry/bring (from afar)'.   (These are real Gamilaraay words! "How clever is 
that?" he says full of himself.  ;-) )

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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