LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.12 (04) [E]

Mon Sep 12 18:42:16 UTC 2005

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.11 (09) [E]

Ron wrote:
> I was the only person in the party to
> notice this though, the others being born and raised Americans who
wouldn't
> have known his accent from a bar of green soap, needing my interpreting
> services for all characters except for that of Mrs. Wilkinson's (Julie
> Walters), who hails from Birmingham and obviously experimented with a
> Geordified accent of someone born elsewhere -- which is fine.  ("Ron, what
> did he say?" -- Thank goodness for stop and replay functions!)

But DVDs have one other very useful function - subtitles! Just switch them
on the next time...

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.11 (09) [E]

From: Dan Prohaska <danielprohaska at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Language Varieties

Reinhard,
Yes, what a lovely film... I sat in the audience when it was out in the
theatres with only nine people and literally everyone was in tears.

Anyroad, concerning "Dad". I don't think he was even trying to do a Geordie
accent. Have you ever considered the possibility that "Dad" might have moved
from Scotland to Durham, married (for love) and settled there? With him as a
Scots there're even fewer reasons for travelling down south to London.

The fact that he was Scottish, obviously so, and had a different accent from
his sons didn't disturb me one little bit - and I'm picky with accents in
the flicks and on stage!

That is after all what usually happens. Children will speak the
accent/dialect of their peers, the friends they grow up with where they grow
up despite one or both parents coming from somewhere else. I know this from
my own personal experience. My sister and I are 10 years apart and spent the
linguistically formative years in different cities. We speak with a
different accent, both in German and in English.

Another example closer to Billy Elliot's home is from my cousins in
Manchester. One of my mum's sisters married a Canadian who, even after 40
years of living Manchester never lost his Tronna-accent. All four of his
kids, spoke broad Mancunian.

One more thing to think about is also, that us actors are only human. Some
will do a better job at learning accents and dialects, others will be less
apt. I firmly believe that "Dad" was intended to be a Scot and what a
wonderful actor Gary Lewis is. I think he gave a brilliant performance as
"Dad".

Dan

***
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Folks,

Today I had the pleasure of watching a DVD version of the British movie
(2000) "Billy Elliot" -- at last.  It's a splendid work, but I have one
linguistic nit to pick.  ;-)

The story is set in an economically depressed mining town in England's
northeast during the 1984 mining strikes (a.k.a. Lady Thatcher's triumphal
union bust).  In other words, we are talking about what is generally
considered the homeland of "Geordie," of Northumbrian and Tyneside dialects.

By his accent, Gary Lewis, playing "Dad" (Jackie Elliot), can be clearly
identified as Scottish, even by me -- with a fairly obvious difference
between his "accent" and the "accents" of his sons.  [...]

This only nit I have to pick ... is it with Gary who didn't try hard enough
doing Geordie, or is it with the cast director?  Maybe it was a compromise,
because the guy made such a good "Dad" and carried off the emotional parts
splendidly.  A sign that even in British film-making with its renown
attention to detail standards a slipping, perhaps?  What's the problem?
Well, in one scene, Billy asks his dad what London (["lUndIn]) is like, and
his dad replies, "I don't know, son. I never made it past Durham" -- and
that with a Scottish accent ...

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L Language Varieties

Hi Ron,

I too coincidently watched Billy just two days ago.
I've seen it before and knew the accents and that the
father was clearly Scottish. However this time I
watched it dubbed into German. In the German version
the father says something like I've never been outside
Durham - which they can of course get away with, cos
they're all talking German anyway. This bothered me a
bit too cos I can remember the English version.
However him saying I've never made it past Durham
makes sense, as it could mean just that, that he's
never been south of Durham...

And Julie Walters can do no wrong. I remember being
drunk once with a group of friends in a car in my
youth in Brighton and seeing Julie Walters and
Patricia Hayes coming out the back door of a theatre
together. We went round the block again to get a
better look and shouted their names in a very drunken
fashion. Instead of ignoring us they waved and
laughed, which I thought was a nice touch. I've been a
fan since.

So British films are still ok ;)

Gary

http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.11 (09) [E]

>This only nit I have to pick ... is it with Gary who didn't try hard
enough doing Geordie, or is it with the cast director? <

I have a Scots son-in-law living and working in the West Midlands. If he
were filmed, would it be fair criticism to accuse him of not speaking
'Brummie' well enough?

A Scot working in Tyneside - Yup! Perfectly possible!

And have you ever noticed that although one parent living out of his/her
own language area, might (still) have a strong accent, the children won't
pick it up.
The children have the accent of their environment - not that of parents who
have moved away from theirs.

heather

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.11 (09) [E]

Ron wrote: "Americans who wouldn't have known his accent from a bar of green
soap."

Ron, I have a bar of Irish Spring at home which is green.  Maybe it should
really be Scottish Spring?  ;-)

Mark Brooks

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

OK, folks.  You got me convinced.  Thanks for your input.

Heather, this was not about the possibility of a Scot living in Tyneside. 
How could I doubt that?  It was about me hearing "Dad" say that he had never 
been outside that place in Tyneside.  But, as our Dan and Gary said, you can 
argue that what he actually said could be interpreted as meaning "south of 
Durham."

Dan, no bout adout it: Gary Lewis did a tremendous job (as he usually does). 
*All* actors did, really, especially the kid, whose performance absolutely 
blew me away.

> So British films are still ok ;)

Oh, yes, they sure are.  I'd rather have a couple of them than a hundred 
container-loads of the usual Hollywood fare.

Gabriele:

> But DVDs have one other very useful function - subtitles! Just switch them
> on the next time...

It never occurred to any of us, perhaps because we were focused on watching 
a movie in English.  ;-)

Cheers, you lo'!
Reinhard/Ron

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