LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.13 (03) [E]

Tue Sep 13 16:14:23 UTC 2005

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.12 (08) [E]

Paul wrote:
> On the same vein, do they ever produce dramas or programmes in Germany in
> other dialects/languages with standard HD subs?

Well, on regular TV (not DVDs) they don't ususally subtitle Bavarians, maybe
their lobby is too strong, but they do subtitle German-speaking Swiss people
in documentaries and such, and they often subtitle foreigners speaking
German if they have an accent, even if their German is otherwise pretty
decent, which I find slightly offensive. But then, the Dutch add subtitles
to the Belgian mystery series "Flikken", for example, which is absolutely
unnecessary because they almost speak standard Dutch anyway, with a teensy
bit of a local accent.

Most of the productions that are "supposed" to be in dialect (including LS
here) are not subtitled, though; it is assumed that people who choose to
watch this program do so because they enjoy the language.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Dan Prohaska <danielprohaska at bluewin.ch>
Subject: "Language varieties" [e]

Paul,
German language television in Germany and Austria makes very few TV dramas,
serials, or programmes in dialect. The few items of dialect you will hear
are on the (lousy) chat shows where people from all walks of life are
"interviewed" or rather set at each others' throats. Even then most dialect
speakers will mellow down their speech "because they're on TV and have to
talk proper". Those that do speak in their dialect are usually ridiculed as
incomprehensible.

You get a little more smattering of dialect in the Karnival/Fasching days
where speakers recite dialect poems slamming daily politics and politicians
and the like.

Austria incorporates a little more dialect in its TV productions. Though
main characters are often Standard German speakers, or even German for that
matter, there will usually be one or two token dialect speakers.

There was one Austrian cult-TV show called "Kottan ermittelt" that was
mainly in Viennese dialect and was shown in Germany with subtitles. Not in
Austria though because everybody is expected to understand Viennese. I
wonder what the Vorarlbergers though of that...

In Switzerland the situation is completely different. A large, if not the
larger part of broadcasting is done entirely in dialect. Every speaker is
expected to use his or her own dialect. They produce game shows, chat shows,
series, dramas, comedy shows, local and sports news all in dialect. Films
set in German speaking Switzerland are also in Swiss German. The national
news, documentaries, cultural and some political discussion shows etc. are
in Standard German, as are the many dubbed series from all over the place,
usually the US where the dubbing is used that was made for German TV, though
it would be fun to see "Six Feet Under" in a dubbed Swiss German version ;-)

If Swiss programmes are shown/watched at all, usually on 3Sat the
"Drei-Länder-Kultur-Kanal" they have to be shown with subtitles. I doubt
many outside south-western Germany and western Austria would be able to
understand most Swiss German dialects.

I did see a programme recently where a Walser was interviewed.
Walser-Deutsch are the very archaic Swiss German dialects spoken in the
south-west of German speaking Switzerland. Most other Swiss have
difficulties understanding it which is why it was subtitled in Standard
German.

Dan

***
From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.09.12 (04) [E]

"This reminds me of a TV serial in the 90s starring Robert Carlyle and set
in a tough area of Edinburgh with a particularly heavy accent (Carlyle is a
genius at accents).  Because the dialogue was so difficult to follow, they
subtitled it.  OK so far...but not in Standard English, they just
transcribed the dialect!!  So you couldn't understand half of what they
said, and couldn't read it either!!

On the same vein, do they ever produce dramas or programmes in Germany in
other dialects/languages with standard HD subs?
Paul"

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Dan (above):

> In Switzerland the situation is completely different. A large, if not the
> larger part of broadcasting is done entirely in dialect. Every speaker is
> expected to use his or her own dialect. They produce game shows, chat 
> shows,
> series, dramas, comedy shows, local and sports news all in dialect. Films
> set in German speaking Switzerland are also in Swiss German.

Dan, folks, I'm pretty sure that this is because in Switzerland there is a 
strong, if not overwhelming feeling that "Swiss German," i.e., Alemannic 
used in Switzerland, is a language or group of languages in its own right. 
Virtually all German-speaking Swiss are at least bilingual, able to use 
their Alemannic dialects as well as Swiss-Standard German (and they usually 
know French as well, many Italian, as well as English as a foreign 
language).  As such they are very acutely aware of the enormous differences 
between "German proper" and their dialects of Alemannic.  Furthermore, they 
very well know that most Germans (with the exception of certain Allemannic 
speakers) cannot understand their dialects, or very little thereof.  (In 
general, I can follow a fluent conversation in Dutch, Flemish, Afrikaans, 
Frisian and Pennsylvania German far better than one in most Swiss German 
dialects, certainly those of the Upper and Uppermost groups.)

Because of this awareness, and perhaps because of a bit of pride and that 
usually strong Swiss sense of autonomy, Swiss German tends to be treated as 
a language in its own right. There have been movements to make it more 
autonomous, some proposing their own, less German-dependent writing system. 
This is also undoubtedly the reason why there is a stronger Swiss German 
literary tradition than in "other" German dialects.  (And we are not talking 
about Low Saxon now.)

In fact, I am surprised they have not begun to present news programs and the 
like in Swiss German.  I suspect this is because of the great diversity of 
dialects (though this would not prevent local news to be presented in local 
dialects).  In Alsace, news are in fact presented in Alsatian Alemannic 
(besides French), not in Standard German, obviously for two reasons: (1) a 
need of symbolic separation from Germany and Switzerland, and (2) Alsace 
having a far lesser degree of dialectical diversity.

If Swiss German ever comes to be officially recognized as a separate 
language, this would put the Alemannic dialects of Germany and Austria into 
a strange position, especially the Upper Alemannic dialects of Vorarlberg 
(Austria) and the southern parts of the Black Forest (Germany).  Should they 
be parts of that or remain officially dialects of German?  What about 
Swabian and Low Alemannic dialects that link with "proper" German (including 
also Colonial German, _Alemán Coloneiro_, of Venezuela), given that Basel 
German is Low Alemannic also?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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