LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.19 (12) [A/E/LS]

Tue Sep 20 05:02:47 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.19 (02) [E]

Haai Ron:

Onderwerp: Etimologie

'Grass Widow'.

> What are the Scots, Frisian and Afrikaans words, and those in other
> varieties?

In Afrikaans sê ons 'Grasweduwee' of 'Graswewenaar' (Onbestorwe weduwee of
wewenaar).

Lekker string, treurige onderwerp!

Groete,
Mark

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From: Rikus Kiers <kiersbv at tiscali.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.09.19 (06) [A/D/E]

Heather would not be surprised that hedge sermons existed to.
In the reformation proces, and war 1588-1648 in the Netherlands protestants
had their , illegal, "haghepreken". It is a well-known phenomenon in which
the anti catholic preachers held sermons somewhere in the woods or any not
to easy to reach place. Peculiar is that in Drenthe(Netherlands) close to
the village of Schoonoord is an open place in the woods, which used to be a
place where the few left catholics in Drenthe had their forbidden sermons,
after the reformation of Denthe. I forgot the name of that place. May be
someone knows its name, may be it was called the paapse kerk. ( paap means
Paus or catholic)

Greetings
Rikus Kiers

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Leyve Reinhard un al de annern Neddersassischen,

LS: 'nücksch' översett uns klouke 'Neuer Sass' tou G: 'trotzig', E:
'defiant'. Mi dücht, wat dat verkeyrt is. LS: 'Nücken' heyt opp G:
'Verrückheiten', 'Tollheiten', E: 'crazy behaviour', 'madness'.
Eyn anner Bedüüden is ouk 'unentwirrbarer Knoten' (by de Navy seyn wi woll
ouk 'Japanischer Familiensteek' ;-)), un de Snack 'in 't Nück springen'
meynt G: 'im Dreieck springen', E: 'to jump in a triangle' (because of anger
or joy).

Wat meynt ji doortou?
***
(English)

Dear Ron and the rest of Lowland,

LS: 'Nücksch' our wise 'Neuer Sass' translates to G: 'trotzig', E:
'defiant'. I think it to be wrong. LS: 'Nücken' is in G: 'Verrückheiten',
'Tollheiten', E: 'crazy behaviour', 'madness'.
Another different meaning is G: 'unentwirrbarer Knoten' (in the Navy we
called it 'Japanischer Familiensteek', E: 'a knot like a Japanese family'
because their idiomatically family spirit ;-)), and the idiom  'in 't Nück
springen' means G: 'im Dreieck springen', E: 'to jump in a triangle'
(because of anger or joy).

What's your opinion and maybe paralleles?

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

[English below]

Leyve Jonny,

Daar hest maal wedder deep in d'n buydel langd un 'n vetten brokken 
ruut-vischt.

Eyrst maal mutst weten, dat 't in't Nedderlandsche 'n verwandt wourd mit 
meyr or min dat sülvige beduyden givt: _nuk_.  Of 't nu ook *_nuks_ as 
gegen-stuk tou _nüksch_ givt, dat weet ik nich, gloyv' ik ook nich.  Dat is 
den wul _nukkig_, man dat beduydt man bloots _nüksch_ in d'n sin vun us 
_grappig_.  Man Nedderlandsch _grappig_ beduydt wedder so wat as us 
_witsig_, _lustig_, _spijoyksch_, _kreepsch_, vun _grap_ 'wits', 'spaass', 
'spijoyk', verwandt mit us _grap_, dat vundagigen daags mayst bloots in de 
meyrtal bruukt wardt: _grappen_, wat in 't Nedderlandsche oeversett so wat 
as _gril_ (NS _gril_), _kuur_, _luim_ (NS _luun_), _nuk_ (NS _nük_), _bui_, 
_bevlieging_ or _lier_ is.

Dat beduyden "upsternaatsch", "buksch", "steyrsch", "rebelsch", "wreveling", 
"wedder-bö(r)stig", "eventuyrsch", "wrantig" or "balstuyrig" ~ "balstuyrsch" 
hebt de Nedderlandschen gegen-stükken schynts nich. (Daar kanst t.b. 
_halsstarrig_, _stijfhoofdig_, _hardnekkig_ or _koppig_ tou seggen.)  Ik 
gloyv' ook dat düt beduyden in 't Neddersassische later daar tou keym.

Wouneem kaamt _nük_ un _nuk_ nu vun af?  Dat weet ik nich, vind keyn spour 
daar vun in de olden spraken.  Wen anners?

> un de Snack 'in 't Nück springen'
> meynt G: 'im Dreieck springen', E: 'to jump in a triangle' (because of 
> anger
> or joy).

Hmmm ... in den val is 't sachs verwandt mit Ingelsch _nook_ < 
Middel-Ingelsch _nok_, _noke_, _nooke_, _neuck_ u.s.w.  Dat is sachs schynts 
mit Middel-Sassisch _ôke_ ~ _nôke_ 'stark an-winkeld stük land', ook 
Telemark Norweegsch _nôk_ (< Middel-Sassysch?) 'haken'.  Amen "nich 
lyk/even" = "krum" > "verdrayd", "mallerig"?

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

***

Dear Jonny,

I see you found another juicy morsel deep down at the bottom of your stack.

Bear in mind that Dutch has a related word with more or less the same 
meaning: _nuk_. I don't know and don't suppose that there is an equivalent 
of the adjective _nüksch_.  I guess that would be _nukkig_, but it has the 
meaning of _nüksch_ only in the sense of "whimsical," like LS _grappig_. 
And Dutch _grappig_ has the meaning 'funny', and _grap_ means 'joke', 
related with LS _grap_ which these days occurs mostly in the plural: 
_grappen_ 'weird idea(s)', 'flights of fancy', 'whim' = Dutch gril_ (LS 
_gril_), _kuur_, _luim_ (LS _luun_), _nuk_ (NS _nük_), _bui_, _bevlieging_ 
or _lier_.

The connotation of "obstinate (behavior)" that LS _nük_ can have is 
apparently not carried by Dutch _nuk_; that would be e.g. _halsstarrig_, 
_stijfhoofdig_, _hardnekkig_ or _koppig_ (LS _upsternaatsch_, _buksch_, 
_steyrsch_, _rebelsch_, _wreveling_, _wedder-bö(r)stig_, _eventuyrsch_, 
_wrantig_ or _balstuyrig_ ~ _balstuyrsch_).  I suspect that this is a later 
sematic extension.

As to the origin of the words, I don't have the faintest idea, find no trace 
of them in the old languages.  Anyone else?

> and the idiom  'in 't Nück
> springen' means G: 'im Dreieck springen', E: 'to jump in a triangle'
> (because of anger or joy).

Hmmm ... in that case there's perhaps a connection with English "nook" < 
Middle English _nok_, _noke_, _nooke_, _neuck_, etc. It may be related with 
Middle Saxon _ôke_ ~ _nôke_ 'acutely angled piece of land', also Telemark 
Norwegian _nôk_ (< Middle Saxon?) 'hook'.  Perhaps "not straight" = 
"crooked," "bent" > "weird," "crazy," etc.?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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