LL-L "Morphology" 2005.09.26 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.26 (08) [E/LS/German]

Sandy,

Classifiers blow things up even more:

I do not know anything about sign languages, but I know that Chinese gets
very specific with its classifiers. You cannot just say, "I bought one
book." You have to say, "I bought one [kind of] book." There are tons of
those classifiers that are used to quantify numbers. I only know about
Mandarin, but the classifiers are reflected in Chinese characters, so I
would guess that they apply across the Middle Country.
Ben

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Ben,

This topic of "classifiers" (or "measure words" or "counters") concerns the 
area of the Lowlands just barely, though it would be interesting to see if 
there are specific ones in our area.

 In Low Saxon, for instance, there is the measure word _göpsch_ denoting the 
amount of something (e.g., water or berries) that fits into two cupped hands 
held together.  That would be an example of a special measure.  I have never 
come across an equivalent in another language.

Here's a brief explanation of what our Ben is talking about. (I did an 
honors thesis on the Chinese case.)  Numerous East and Southeast Asian 
languages (not belonging to a single genealogically related group) have, in 
addition to group, part or measure words (e.g., "*flock* of birds," "*slice* 
of bread," "*gaggle* of geese," "*pinch* of salt," "*tons* of hay," 
"*handful* of marbles") "measure words" or "classifyers" or "counters" for 
single objects.  In fact, in languages such as the Chinese ones (at least in 
the modern ones) you can not have a numeral before a noun without having one 
of these intervening words.  They are often called, "numeral classifiers," 
but that is a misnomer in Modern Chinese, since these words are also 
required after demonstrative pronouns.  For instance, in Mandarin:

一群鳥 yi QUN niao "one FLOCK bird"
   a/one flock of birds
這群鳥 zhe QUN niao "this FLOCK bird"
   this flock of birds
一隻鳥 yi ZHI niao "one ZHI bird" [= one of a pair, single]*
   a/one bird
這隻鳥 zhe ZHI niao "this ZHI bird" [= one of a pair, single]
   this bird
那雙鳥 na SHUANG niao "that SHUANG niao" [= pair]
   that pair of birds

三部車 san BU che "three BU vehicle" [= part, division]
   three cars
那部車 na BU che "that BU vehicle" [= part, division]
   those cars
or
三台車 san TAI che "three TAI vehicle" [= platform]
   three cars
那台車 na TAI che "that TAI vehicle" [= platform]
   those cars
or
三輛車 san LIANG che "three LIANG vehicle" [= vehicle]
   three cars
那輛車 na LIANG che "that LIANG vehicle" [= vehicle]
   those cars

三隊車 san DUI che "three DUI vehicle" [= group, team, fleet]
   three fleets of cars

五本書 wu BEN shu "five BEN book" [= root, origin, source, basis]
   five books
哪本書 na BEN shu "which BEN book" [= root, origin, source, basis]
   which books?
五冊書 wu CE shu "five CE book" [= volume (of a set)]
   five volumes (of a book)
五章書 wu ZHANG shu "five ZHANG book" [= section, chapter]
   five chapters (of a book)
五套書 wu TAO shu "five TAO book" [= set, suit, suite]
   five sets of books

The only thing that is really different from "our" languages is the use of 
such words with singular forms, and also that there are numerous such words 
going with specific nouns.  This makes it really complex.  However, some of 
the more obscure ones are known by most people only passively at best. 
Furthermore, if in doubt you can always use the default counter 個 ge where 
no part or group needs to be indicated.  Most Chinese speakers these days do 
not show off the wealth of classifiers/counters they know.

* An interesting aside regarding these types of words is that some of them 
permit cultural glimpses. For instance 隻 _zhi_ for "counting" individual 
birds is derived from the original meaning "one of a pair/couple," as 
opposed to 雙 _shuang_ 'pair', 'couple'.  The characters contain the 
character for 'bird', _zhi_ one and _shuang_ two_, and that is the only 
difference between them.  In Chinese oral and written literature, birds are 
associated with the idea of 'pair', or 'mating', always with 'togetherness', 
and the metaphor of a single bird is one of loneliness and separation, e.g., 
a single gull connotes a lonely traveling or banished person.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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