LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.04.01 (06) [E]

Sun Apr 2 00:21:24 UTC 2006

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 01 April 2006 * Volume 06
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.31 (06) [D/E]

Interesting, but what I meant to say: the fact that Sranan Tongo does not
seem to have a "native" word for future but uses a word borrowed from
Dutch says nothing. One question: what is the native English word in this
case?  Eeeehmmm, "future" of course. No, future is a French word, from
Latin. So that's the prove that the English don't know the concept
of 'future', isn't it? It's just a prove of the fascist look some of the
Hindustanis from Suriname have upon their Creole compatriots...
and a quite dangerous one, too, in an underdevelopped country where Asians
and Afro Carribeans form equally large and competing ethnic groups.

Ingmar
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Lexicon
>
>'FUTURE':
>
>SARNAMI: आने वाल टेम (āne wāla ţem)
>
>HINDI: आगामी समय (āgāmī samay), भविष्य (bhavişya)
>
>SANSKRIT: आगामिन् (āgāmin), अनागत (anāgata), अपर (apara), आयत (āyata),
आयति
>(āyati), आयत्ति (āyatti), भाविन् (bhāvin), भविष्णु (bhavişnu), भविष्य
>(bhavişya), भविष्यत् (bhavişyat), भवित्र् (bhavitŗ), भवीत्व (bhavītva), 
>भव्य
>(bhavya), etc.
>
>आवना āwnā >आने āne: come, coming
>आगामिन् (āgāmin) > आगामी (āgāmī): come, coming
>समय (samaya) > समय (samay): occasion, time
>भविष्य (bhavişya): that which is to come
>अनागत (anāgata): not come, unknown
>अपर (apara): posterior, posterity
>आयत (āyata): extended, long
>आयति (āyati): extending
>आयत्ति (āyatti): length, extension
>भाविन् (bhāvin): becoming
>भविष्णु (bhavişnu): what is to become, the impending
>भविष्य (bhavişya): what is to become, the impending
>भविष्यत् (bhavişyat): about to become or be
>भवित्र् (bhavitŗ): what is or ought to become or be , future , imminent
>भवीत्व (bhavītva): future
>भव्य (bhavya): o be about to be or become
>वाल (vāla) > वाल (wāla)?: said to be
>
>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.31 (02) [E]
>
>I know the Sranan Tongo word for future: it's "toekomst".
>Yes, it's the same as in Dutch, like so many abstract words in Sranan.
>So when your "cooleague" thinks those Negroe compatriots of his don't
>think about the future, he should ask himself if Sarnami uses a Hindi or
>Sanskrit word for Future, or has a real word of its own...
>
>Later!
>Ingmar

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Ingmar,

I wasn't trying to comment on your allegation of chauvinist attitudes, just 
added the information I had.

I don't know anything about the prevailing interethnic attitudes in Surinam. 
So I'm in no position to confirm or deny your allegations.

A language lacking a word for "future" (or "present" or "past") is in itself 
not necessarily an indictment of "primitiveness."  Traditionally, time 
perceptions vary greatly between cultures.  Many of them do not think of 
time as linear but in other, no less complex or "sophisticated" ways.  These 
days, you will find this preserved in indigenous Australia and Papua-New 
Guinea, for instance, also in parts of Oceania, Africa and the Americas.

In some ancient European languages there seem to be no real words for 
"future" either, though there are words that pertain to the future, such as 
Old English _forþ_ 'from now on', 'in the future', _toweard_, _uferra_ 
'future ...', Gothic _anawaírþs_, _framwaírþs_ 'future ...', _fauraqiþan_ 
'to foretell the future', and Old Frisian _tôkumande_ 'future ...'.  In 
fact, among the Old Germanic languages I can verify the existence of nouns 
for "future" only in Old Norse (_skuld_) and Old German (_kumst_, 
_zukumst_).  Does this mean that the latter were more developed or superior? 
Hardly.

None of the Indo-Aryan words for "future" seem to mean exclusively "future," 
by the way.  They always mean other things as well, such as "still to come."

Do I want to imply that there is no reason to allege chauvinism on the part 
of Indo-Surinamese?  Nope?  Do I think that saying a language lacks a word, 
native or otherwise, for "future" automatically implies chauvinism? 
Likewise nope -- aleast not without knowing more about the situation.

But I'm most certainly very interested in finding out more.

I certainly find it interesting that Sranantongo _Ptata_ and _Ptatakondre_ 
mean 'Netherlands' (cf. _ptata_ 'potato', _kondre_ 'country').

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: I wonder if Sarnami टेम (ţem) is derived from English _time_.  Use of 
retroflex "t" would certainly be consistent with that. 

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