LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.04.29 (03) [D/E/LS]

Sat Apr 29 19:53:46 UTC 2006

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 29 April 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Stellingwerfs Eigen <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar"

Ingmar wrote a few days ago:
> Snappez-vous?

en plotselingklaps zag ik de klepel van het belletje rinkelen en moest ik
denken aan de Bokwerdse taal (ook LS):

"Ten derden male zijn wij er op aanstaan van de Leeuwarder Courant toe over
gegaan en stel een bloemlezing gaar van de artikelen uit ons Weekblad
Bokwerder Belang, hetwelk dan in de L.C. serie het licht zien zal en wederom
hebben wij hier lang tegen aan geschijtschoord, want er passeert in ons dorp
langer zeer veel wat wij liever stil houden, maar het is ook ziezo gelegen,
dat de wereld steeds opender wordt en elkeen zijn argewatie zonder euvelmoed
buurkundig maakt, Persoonlijk zijn wij zo niet opgebracht en staan hier dan
ook huiverig tegenover, dat de lezer moet niet menen, dat wij in dit
boekwerk zo maar alles ingezet hebben, aangezien er aksidenten geweest zijn
waar een ander niets mee te krijgen heeft en zijn dan ook van bedenken, dat
wij het positief benaderen moeten, immers, heden ten dage ligt de wereld er
zo heen, dat het raarste gewoon wordt en het gewone raar en ouderwets."

Dit is de openingszin van het derde boek (Bokwerd for ever) in het
'Bokwerds' van de befaamde Friese schrijver Rink van der Velde (1932-2001).
Dit 'Bokwerds' is een opzettelijk gemaakte 'pidgin', door van een lokaal
Fries spraakgebruik  van eenvoudig nivo, deftig geschreven Nederlands te
maken. Het Bokwerds is een begrip geworden in de Friese literatuur.
In het Stellingwerfs komt dit zowel opzettelijk als per ongeluk ook wel eens
voor en wij noemen het dan 'Woldwarfs'.

Vraag: komt dit meer voor in de LS taalgebieden?

Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf (Fryslân),
Piet Bult

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: L-L "Proverbs" 2006.04.28 (07) [E/LS]

So I guess that is the reason why Twente Low Saxon is so much uglier than
Achterhoek Low Saxon, especially the Winterswijk variety ;-) even though
they both belong to the same Hamaland subgroup.

But, maybe strange, the same isn't true about Stellingwerven LS from a SW
Drenthe point of view, although the differences between those two closely
related varities are comparable to that between Achterhoek and Twente LS.
So there must be more... maybe other associations play a role, e.g.
religious differnces? Twente is predominantly Roman Catholic, but the
Achterhoek protestant (Calvinist) like the rest of the Low Saxon
Netherlands. In the Achterhoek there are a few import RC enclaves, but
this doesn't lead to markable dialect differences there. As it notably
does in other areas, e.g. Bentheim (Germany).

The arguments why Twente LS is said to be uglier are that it sounds
more 'boorish', mumbling, louder, harsher, whiny etc.
This are not exclusively opinions, it also has to do with some
phonological characteristics of Twente LS that Achterhoek LS lacks:

*the so-called 'swallowing' (inslikken) of syllables:
'loopm' ["lo:p=m] vs 'lopen', 'kiekng' ["kik=N] vs 'kieken' ["kik at n],
'laotn' ["lQt=n] vs 'laoten' ["lQ:t at n], 'lepl' ["lEp=l] vs 'laepel'
["lE:p at l], 'waatr' ["Pa:t=r] vs 'wate(r)' ["Pa:t9].
In fact this 'swallowing' happens in all LS dialects in the Netherlands
but in the Achterhoek, where 'lopen' = ["lo:p at n]; Dutch lopen = ["lo.up@].

*the stretching of many vowels in Twente LS, and their nasalisation:
Tw 'weend' [Pe:~t] vs Ah 'wind' [PInt], 'hoond' [ho:~t] vs 'hónd'[hont],
'vaast(e)' [fa:st] vs 'vaste'["f\ast@];Dutch wind [Pent], hond [hOnt],
vast [f\ast] etc. This also happens in many other LS varieties in the NLs.

*many Tw 'eu' and 'ö'sounds where Ah has 'oo' and 'o' :
geutn vs goten (poured), götte vs gotte (gutter), öllie vs ollie (oil) etc.
Dutch goten, goot, olie.
also Tw eu in many past verbs where Ah has ee: Tw leup vs Ah leep
(walked), Dutch liep.

In fact, many of these Twente Low Saxon features are also found in the
other varieties that belong to other subgroups of Netherlands Low Saxon,
except in Achterhoek LS, but because of the basic closeness of Ah and Tw
LS in most other aspects, Twente LS is felt to be more ugly, which is not
the case about the other LS varieties...

Ingmar

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>On a serious side, this choice of "monkey" in connection with physical
>appearance ought to remind us that we humans tend to pass harsher judgment
>upon those that are closest to us (i.e., those with whom we have the most
>in common).  In the case of languages and cultures, we tend to make more
>fun of or even criticize those that are most closely related to our own,
>usually the ones just across the border, or just a few miles away in the
>next village or so -- making the most of small differences to
>differentiate between their inferiority (or "weirdness") and our
>superiority (or "normality").

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks, Ingmar, for illustrating my "philosophical" remarks with an example.

Religious differences would be just another type of distance that has been 
provoking dramatization of relatively minor linguistic and cultural 
differences, and oil is added to the flame of prejudice where religious 
differences are blamed for political differences and degrees of supposed 
conservatism.

We see this also in (Protestant-dominated) North German ridicule of 
(Roman-Catholic-dominated) South German dialects, for instance.  Other 
examples include prejudices between Hindu-, Sikh- and Moslem-dominated 
dialects of Hindustani (Hindi and Urdu), Gujarati, Kashmiri and Panjabi 
(Punjabi), between Hindu- and Moslem-dominated dialects of Bengali (which 
resulted in a political border through Bengal), between Eastern-Orthodox- 
(Serbian), Roman-Catholic- (Croatian) and Moslem-dominated (Bosnian) 
dialects of Serbo-Croatian, between Eastern-Orthodox- and 
Roman-Catholic-dominated dialects of Ukrainian, and between Protestant- and 
Roman-Catholic-dominated dialects of Sorbian (Lusatian), at least in the 
past also between (Roman-Catholic-dominated) Polish and 
(Protestant-dominated) Kashubian (Eastern Pomeranian).

While I'm not taking sides here, let me point out that the conservatism that 
supposedly accompanies Roman Catholicism has preserved Sorbian language and 
culture far better than in traditionally Protestant-dominated communities of 
Lusatia (Germany).  I don't think the basic reason is religion _per se_ but 
the separation brought on by the (partly self-imposed) isolation of 
communities that chose not to join the Reformation.  While the 
Protestant-dominated communities were more or less open to the surrounding 
Protestant-dominated German communities and also intermarried with them, the 
Roman-Catholic-dominated ones minimized even their dealings with 
Sorbian-speaking Protestants.  Furthermore, their priests used to be 
educated in the Czech Republic, and this probably strengthened Slavonic 
awareness.  The result is that if anyone, Catholic, Protestant or otherwise, 
wants to get first-hand experiences of the most traditional varieties of 
Upper Sorbian language and culture they tend to visit traditionally Roman 
Catholic places such as Kamjenc/Kamenz, Kulow/Wittichenau, Radwor/Radibor, 
Chrósćicy-Pančicy-Kukow/Crostwitz-Panschwitz-Kuckau, Njebjelčicy/Nebelschütz 
and Slěpe/Schleife.

Back in the Lowlands, this would, no doubt, be the case too between 
Germany's Eastern Frisian of Sealterlân/Saterland and Eastern Friesland had 
the dialects of the latter area survived.  The ancestors of the Sater 
Frisians were Roman Catholic East Frisians that resisted the Reformation and 
withdrew to a less anti-Catholic area outside Eastern Friesland.  This is 
how a dialect of Eastern Frisian survived, in relative isolation outside the 
original area.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

===
"Čłowjek je dwójny, tež sam sebi.
Tysacy słowow sym kaž paćerki stykał na swoje lĕta a na kóncu spóznał, zo 
ani jednoho słowa njeje, kotrež by jeho w ćĕle a duši we wšej wĕrnosći 
wĕrnje pomjenowało."

"A person comes in two versions, in his or her own perception as well.
Thousands of words have I strung onto the string of years, only to realize 
that there is not a single word that accurately signifies a person in body 
and spirit."

                   Jurij Brĕzan (Upper Sorbian writer, 09 June 1916 - 12 
March 2006)
                   [Translation by R. F. Hahn, 04 April 2006] 

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