LL-L 'History' 2006.08.01 (03) [D/E/V]
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Tue Aug 1 15:47:14 UTC 2006
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 01 August 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L 'History'
Beste Ron,
You wrote:
> Now, does Willem mean he wrote "Madoc" from scratch or just the "Dietsch"
> translation?
>
Hard to say, the book is lost. In the case of "Van den vos Reynaerde"
it's quite clear that he based his story on a French one, but with
Madoc, the situation is more complicated. A lot of research has been
done (and is still going on) in this respect, and therefore I'd like to
refer you to:
http://mythopedia.info/madoc.htm
dealing with the connection between Willem and Wales. Some say he may
have known prince Madoc in person (Willem must have been one of the
prime intellectuals of his day), and given the earlier exodus of Flemish
weavers to Wales, I think this possibility should not (yet) be ruled out.
Another famous medieval Flemish writer Jacob van Maerlant (very much
advocating the use of Diets in his books, among which a Bible
translation and an encyclopedia on natural sciences:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_van_Maerlant\) also mentioned Madoc:
http://www.sidhe66.atfreeweb.com/PDF%20docs/Beltaine%202003.PDF
Later on, the name Madoc fossilized into the combination "Madocs droom".
"Droom" can be interpreted in two ways here: both "dream" and "ramble".
Kind greetings,
Luc Hellinckx
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.31 (03) [E]
From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: History
As we know from later encounters, the Inuit and Northeast
American peoples were on the whole peaceable and helpful to newcomers. Had the
Europeans befriended them they would have learned how to survive in those
regions.....
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
And arguably did. There is some evidence that, although the Norse Greenland
settlements vanished, the people didn't; they got absorbed by the Inuit.
Paul Finlow-Bates
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.31 (02) [E]
Re: Scottish Indians etc;
My ex-wife's maiden name was Howrie, a version of the Orcadian name Hourie
(she had a Great Grandfather from there). When she was doing an ancestor check,
she found it was quite a common name amongst the Chippewa in Canada. No ancient
Templar Viking Da Vinci UFO explanations required though; there were apparently a
lot of Orkneymen in the Hudson Bay Company.
Paul Finlow-Bates
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From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.31 (09) [E]
On 01/08/2006, at 10:39 AM, R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: History
>
> Tom:
>
> They'd easily be able to claim it. Why, they even claim that Jesus was
"Aryan." ;-)
Then there is that weird British Israelite Movement that claims the British
monarchy is directly descended from latter day Judaean rulers.
Jeremiah fleeing to Ireland with one of Zedekiah's daughters and The Stone of
Destiny where she married an Irish prince also of Judaean descent and they then
settled in England. Some people still take this much seriously among them, I
believe, are some KKK'ers.
Honestly I maketh not this up ! Worth Googling on them.
>
> Here's a naive one for you Tom _et al._ Is that "fiery cross" related to the
>
> Christian cross, and is the "slanted" blue cross on the Scottish flag? I must
>
> admit that I've never thought about that before.
I suspect the Christian Cross, early Highlanders were laws unto themselves and
the Saltire was used in established Scotland.
But crosses figured even earlier in Celtic Highland lore vide The Bridhe Cross
symbolic of the Goddess of that name who was subsequently re-created as a
Christian Saint. Her crosses were woven from straw.
Regards
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us
Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us
Robert Burns
----------
From: 'Arend Victorie' <victorie.a at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.31 (11) [E/V]
Maer her Ysingrijn soete oem,
Ghi neemt uwes neven crancen goem,
Ende heere Brune ende heere Tybeert,
Dat ghi mi dus hebt onneert.
Ghi drie ghi hebbet ghedaen al,
Datmen mi ontliven sal.
Daer toe hebdi ghemaket,
Datso wie die mi ghenaket
Sceldet mi dief of hevet leet
Daer omme moettie, God weet,
Gheoneert werden alle drie,
Ghine haest dat ghescie
Al dat ghi begaert te doene!
Mi is dat herte noch also coene:
Ic dar wel sterven eene waerf.
Ne wart mijn vader, doe hi staerf,
Van alle sinen zonden vry?
Gaet, ghereet die galghe ghi!
Een twint mi langher niet ne spaert,
Reinaerts stoere praatjes tegen zijn oom de wolf Isengrijn, Tibeert de kater
en Bruun de beer. Maar wat heeft hij later in de rats gezeten en wat heeft
hij moeten liegen aan het hof bij koning Nobel om niet aan de galg te komen.
Een prachtig epos.
Goodgaon,
Arend Victorie
----------
From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.31 (06) [E]
Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>Venue? Heather's lawn, provided it's summer
but outside the hornet season.<
You'll have to stand well clear of the plum trees - not just because the
wasps are just about to descend on the biggest crop in years but because of
the drought the trees are shedding branches. A huge one containing lbs of
plums dropped two days ago and scared my two old horses to bits!
Heather
PS If Madog didn't come back - how would the Welsh minstrels known about
his travels enough to make up an existing lay?
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History
Paul:
> And arguably did. There is some evidence that, although the Norse
> Greenland settlements vanished, the people didn't; they got absorbed
> by the Inuit.
Wow! That's a new one for me.
This whole story seems like good historical novel material. Has anyone ever
pursued this? (Uh-oh! Now someone will capitalize on my idea again!)
Heather:
> You'll have to stand well clear of the plum trees - not just because the
> wasps are just about to descend on the biggest crop in years but because of
> the drought the trees are shedding branches. A huge one containing lbs of
> plums dropped two days ago and scared my two old horses to bits!
You don't scare us off that easily, Heather dear. We're a tough lot and quite
prepared to wear helmets. Besides, I could arrive early and prepare my famous
yeast-risen sheet plum cake ("plum pizza") for everyone. That'd take care of
your plums, and the wasps would go elsewhere. What could be lovelier than a lawn
party in summery England, with plum cake, clodded and whipped cream and gallons
of tea?
Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron
P.S.:
> PS If Madog didn't come back - how would the Welsh minstrels known about
> his travels enough to make up an existing lay?
E-mail?
(Sorry. I know I'm a bit silly this morning. "But cute," as my niece would say
whenever she knew she deserved a reprimand.)
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