LL-L 'Names' 2006.08.17 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 17 August 2006 * Volume 01
======================================================================

From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.08.16 (05] [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Rhyming slang
>
> Folks,

> Romany:
> khena ~ khen ~ ken 'house'
> (aside from more usual _kher_ 'house', probably related to Sanskrit and
> Hindi घेर _gher(a)_ 'surrounding', 'boundary', 'yard' > Mongolian
> _ger_ 'yurt')
>
> _Khena_ ~ _khen_ ~ _ken_ possibly came from a Rotwelsch-like jargon, namely
> from Hebrew קֵן _qen_ 'nest', possibly via Western Yiddish or Ladino.
>
> No related word shows up in Sanskrit.
>
> However, an equivalent is apparently not found in Continental Rotwelsch.
> It appears to be specific to Britain, has been varified in British Romany.
>
> Roma ("Gypsy") people's presence in Northern Europe has been reported since
> the early 15th century (Hildesheim, Northern Germany, 1407). The date of
> their arrival in Britain does not seem to be known, though we do know that
> some of them lived in Scotland in the 16th century.

A name question:
In England, apparently the surname Shaw is Romany, or indicates a Romany
origin. (I haven't got the book that asserts that with me at the moment, but
that's what I read in it.) I always felt that made sense - a shaw or copse
is an excellent place for a Romany caravan to stay, and to "locate" itself
for the purposes of trade with the locals; it wouldn't surprise me to have
people use that as their usename for outsiders and later, as their family
name.

Given that Shaw is a surname that is shared between England and Scotland, are
there any Romany families of long-standing presence in Scotland (Scottish
Romanies) of the surname Shaw? (I know that there is a link between a
particular clan - Macintosh, I think - and most Scottish holders of the
surnmae Shaw; I'm just interested in the exceptions at this point.)

Thanks

Wesley Parish

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================