LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.13 (08) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands.list at gmail.com
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 12 December 2006 * Volume 08
======================================================================

From: Luc Hellinckx < luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L 'History'

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

Den hev ik 'n kompermiss-voerslag:
"de Nedder(e)n Landen" (de Neddern Lannen).

Daar sluutt wy den ook Nourd-Duytschland in annere kuntrayen mit in.

Wat holdt Jy daar vun?

A name that applies to such a vast territory should be easily pronounceable
by all inhabitants, and I somewhat fear that "de Nedder(e)n Landen" would
not fit English speech so well...please correct me if I'm wrong. Moreover,
using a plural (Landen), we may come across as being divided after all.
Anyway, here in the South, even today you will almost never hear people use
the word "Nederland(en)", unless they try to talk standard Dutch. "Het bekt
gewoon niet lekker".

So what about something along the lines of "Nerom", "Nerum", "Nering" or
"Neringen"?

A couple of advantages:

   1. Nerom, Nerum are the names of truly existing Dutch hamlets..."Van
   Nerom" and "Van Nerum" do exist as family names (hundreds of them)...can be
   explained as "the nether home", "Niederheim"
   2. short names "sell" better
   3. Nering and Neringen are real Dutch toponyms, meaning "low lying
   lands"...could be easily turned into an adjective, "a Neringer"
   4. "neringen" has a double meaning, it can also mean "trade", "craft",
   "guild" in (older) Dutch...there you have your link with the Hanze! [image:
   :D]

"Was aber die Hanze verbunden hat, das darf der Mensch nicht trennen." [image:
:D]

Greetz,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Salut, Luc!

Thanks, but -- oh, my! -- you misunderstood.

There was a reason why this exchange was in Low Saxon.

Jonny, Utz and others of that dwarsdriever ilk have been having an issue
with me using Low Saxon Leygland (Leegland) for "Lowland(s)," and they have
been most vilely conspiring against me.  Their pitiful little reasoning
effort is based on the fact that today's primary meaning of (lage >)
leyg'is 'base', 'low', 'inferior', 'bad' (though its original meaning
was and in
part still is "low").  I (and anyone of my decidedly more lovely ilk?) have
an issue with their suggested Sydland (Sietland), because to me this
basically still means literally "shallow land" and denotes an often
waterlogged stretch of low-lying land, more like a patch, perhaps a meadow,
not a large area.

For this reason I suggested the compromise name de Nedderen Landen (de
Neddern Lannen), literally "the Low(-lying) Lands."

Note that this is for Low Saxon only!  It is not meant to be a universally
applicable name, since other languages don't have this silly problem (and
have fewer dwarsdrievers too).  It cannot be used or translated in other
languages, though I could imagine Dutch de Nederen Landen, as opposed to
Nederland for the country and English "the Low Countries" collectively for
Belgium and Netherlands, perhaps with French Flanders thrown in for good
measure, but sans Northern Germany.

The idea here is to geographically include Northern Germany (and
historically also Northern Poland and Kaliningrad) as well as culturally and
linguistically Britain and non-European areas in which the Lowlands have
planted their weird little seeds.  In other words, it is meant to go beyond
the official Low Countries.

Hebt je het eindelijk gesnapt?

> "Was aber die Hanze verbunden hat, das darf der Mensch nicht trennen." [image:
:D]

Thou might'st well laugh, deare friend of myne,
Might'st laugh most acryd laughs of yronie,
For what thou citest with that choice of thyne
Is not confirm'd in oure land's sory historie.
Laat niet vallen!

Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20061213/5aca1a35/attachment.htm>