LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.07.06 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L * 06 July 2006 * Volume 01
======================================================================

From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.07.05 (03) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,
 
In connection to the consonant shift-question as e.g. in water/wasser I wonder
how it happened that Scouse (the Liverpool dialect) has a consonant shift almost
similar to the High German one when t becomes ts, p becomes pf and k becomes kh?
Is this the result of an internal shift which happened in and around Liverpool or
is it due to Celtic influence (which also might have caused the High German
consonant shift) either through proximity to Wales or the plentyful Irish
immigrants. When listening to Irish people I often have the impression that they
also have this kind of consonant pronunciation, then again, since Ireland only
adopted English on Gaelic substratum is this shift simply a result of Scouse
pronunciation being spread from the harbour Liverpool to Ireland or vice-a-versa?
 
Gröten vun
 
Helge   

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Hi, Helge!

Interesting!  Here's my nickle's worth.

In the case of Scouse, Irish influences come to mind because of the large Irish
population influx there.  But I doubt it's an Irish thing.  For one thing, I've
never come across the feature in Irish English, and for another thing, I would
expect consonant patalalization in front-vocalic environments to be a more likely
feature to be passed from Irish to English.

My theory is that what you see in Scouse is a more general phonological feature
that has progressed farther and is in fact a repeat of what happened in German. 
As far as I can tell, affricatization of /t/ to [ts] is now a fairly widespread
feature among English dialects of English.  Apparently, the average speaker is
not aware of /t/ being [ts] in their regions; it's just /t/ to them.  A similar
thing has been happening in Danish, and because it affected dialects within the
wider standard range, it seems to be on the increase.

Again according to my theory, this cannot happen in American dialects of English.
 Why?  Because American English dialects, like most Low Saxon dialects, do not
aspirate non-initial consonants, and the result of non-aspiration of medial /t/
in *both* languages has led to the well-known "American flap," a d-like tap not
unlike the sound that in Japanese is romanized as _r_.  I firmly believe that
(strong) aspiration (besides voicelessness) is a precondition for the type of
affricatization we are talking about.  Hence, you hear "better" pronounced as
["bEts3`] and "water" as ["wo:ts3`].  I guess in Scouse it has become generalized
to affect other consonants.  I don't know if Irish influences come to play there,
such as stronger aspiration.

We don't really know what caused affricatization in German.  It could simply be
an internal development, as it seems to be in English and Danish.  However, in
German its seems to have begun and is particularly strong in dialects of regions
that used to be Celtic-speaking.  Cause or coincidence?  In Mandarin Chinese,
almost the same thing happened in the far west, in areas that used to be
non-Chinese (though not in Altaic-speaking areas).  I strongly suspect that this
is due to Amdo Tibetan substrates, mostly from dialects that are now extinct. 
However, I have noticed that some Mandarin dialects aspirate more than others
(the genuine Beijing dialect, for instance, having relatively weak aspiration),
and it may well be that Chinese and Tibetan coincided in the mentioned areas. 
Insidentally, a reduction of phonemic tones is another feature of those areas,
the Amdo Tibetan dialects having no tones at all (unlike Tibetan "proper"), which
may point to another, earlier regional Altaic stratum, though strong Tibetan and
Chinese aspiration won the day.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================