LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.05 (04) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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L O W L A N D S - L * 05 July 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.05 (02) [E/F]

> From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
> Subject: LL-L 'Morphology'
>
> Henno wrote:
>> In Town Frisian "kynders" is said,
>
> Ik wol leauwe dat "kyndes" faker brûkt wurd as "kynders" as mv.
> foar "kyn"
> yn it Stêdsfrysk.
> (I beleave that "kyndes" is more often used as "kynders" as plural
> for "kyn"
> in urban Frysk.")
> Mei freonlike groetnis uut Fryslân,
> Piet Bult

Sure, the pronounciation of "kynders" is "kiendes" (to use a
Dutchified spelling), but "kynders"
is the official Town Frisian spelling (from the dictionary), that
reflects the etymology...
It is a rule that r before s is not pronounced, as is the case in
Frisian as well.

Mei freonlike groetnis fan in Fries om utens,

Henno

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From: 'Global Moose Translations' <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Morphology' 2006.07.05 (02) [E/F]

Henry came up with:
>> Missing is the option of singular and plural forms being identical.
>>
> "Er zijn twee man nodig om die kist te dragen"
> (Two men are needed to carry that crate)
>
> Does that example count?

I think this should count. Good one!

Same in German:

Alle Mann an Deck!
Wir waren vier Mann hoch.
Fünfzehn Mann auf des toten Mannes Kiste...

Since this usage is found mainly in nautical surroundings, it should be
assumed that it is Lowlandic in origin.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Incidentally, the double plural _Kinners_ (kids) is regularly used in Hamburg
Missingsch, but as far as I can tell only as a vocative; e.g., _Nu kommp man må
raain, Kinners_ ("Come on inside, kids!"), versus _Kinner komm'm hiä nich raain_
("Kids aren't allowed in here.") and _Ich happ noch kaaine Kinner_ ("I don't have
any kids yet.").  _Kinners_, or _Menschnkinners_, is also featured in idiomatic
expressions, in that case being a form of universal address; e.g., _Kinners
nochmå!_ as am expression of surprise and/or dismay.

Gabriele:

> I think this should count. Good one!

> Since this usage is found mainly in nautical surroundings, it should be
> assumed that it is Lowlandic in origin.

I concur with all of that (and it ain't hurting too much).

So we seem to have a "Saxon-wide" tendency to leave _man_ unmarked after numerals.

Isn't that the case in English also, at least when in adjectival position?  "A
three man crew" (but "a crew of three men")?  

Aren't there some English dialects in which "fishes" is a legitimate plural form?
 I believe I've heard it used.  

Of course, the diminutive plural form is always marked: "fishy" -> "fishies" ... or?

THREE LITTLE FISHIES 

Down in the meadow in an itty bitty pool 
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too 
Swim, said the mama fishie, swim if you can 
And they swam and they swam all over the dam 
 
Chorus 
   Boop, boop dittem dattem whattem ... Chu! 
   Boop, boop dittem dattem whattem ... Chu! 
   Boop, boop dittem dattem whattem ... Chu! 
 
And they swam and they swam all over the dam 
Stop! said the mama fishie or you will get lost 
The three little fishies didn't wanna be bossed 
The three little fishies went off on a spree 
And they swam and they swam right out to the sea 
 
repeat chorus 
 
And they swam and they swam right out to the sea 
Help! cried the little fishies, look at all the whales 
And quick as they could they turned on their tails 
And back to the pool in the meadow they swam 
And they swam and they swam back over the dam 
 
repeat chorus 
And they swam and they swam back over the dam 
 
repeat chorus 
And they swam and they swam back over the dam 
And they swam and they swam back over the dam 

***

And here a little tribute (though only with an implied plural) to our Glenn and
others of the Northumbrian persuasion.  ;-)  I've always loved this one since the
1970s TV series "When The Boat Comes In" popularized it.

WHEN THE BOAT COMES IN

Come here, maw little Jacky,
Now aw've smoked mi backy,
Let's hev a bit o' cracky,
Till the boat comes in.

Chorus:
   Dance ti' thy daddy, sing ti' thy mammy,
   Dance ti' thy daddy, ti' thy mammy sing;
   Thou shall hev a fishy on a little dishy,
   Thou shall hev a fishy when the boat comes in.

Here's thy mother humming,
Like a canny woman;
Yonder comes thy father,
Drunk - he cannot stand.

Chorus:
   Dance ti' thy daddy, sing ti' thy mammy,
   Dance ti' thy daddy, ti' thy mammy sing;
   Thou shall hev a fishy on a little dishy,
   Thou shall hev a haddock when the boat comes in.

Our Tommy's always fuddling,
He's so fond of ale,
But he's kind to me,
I hope he'll never fail.

Chorus:
   Dance ti' thy daddy, sing ti' thy mammy,
   Dance ti' thy daddy, ti' thy mammy sing;
   Thou shall hev a fishy on a little dishy,
   hou shall hev a bloater when the boat comes in.

I like a drop mysel',
When I can get it sly,
And thou, my bonny bairn,
Will lik't as well as I.

Chorus:
   Dance ti' thy daddy, sing ti' thy mammy,
   Dance ti' thy daddy, ti' thy mammy sing;
   Thou shall hev a fishy on a little dishy,
   Thou shall hev a mackerel when the boat comes in.

May we get a drop,
Oft as we stand in need;
And weel may the keel row
That brings the bairns their bread.

Chorus:
   Dance ti' thy daddy, sing ti' thy mammy,
   Dance ti' thy daddy, ti' thy mammy sing;
   Thou shall hev a fishy on a little dishy,
   Thou shall hev a salmon when the boat comes in.

Enjoy, despite the "Morphology" -> "Songs" crossover (for which I blame Gabriele
of course, because she made me do it with her "Fünfzehn Mann auf des toten Mannes
Kiste" [Fifteen men on a dead man's box])!

Reinhard/Ron

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