LL-L 'History' 2006.07.20 (05) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 30 July 2006 * Volume 05
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.25 (09) [E]

>From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
>Subject: LL-L 'Resources' 2006.07.22 (04) [E]
>
>>From: 'Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.' <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
>>Subject: LL-L: Resources
>>
>>Can somebody help me to find resources concerning some extinct languages of
>>Canada?
>>
>>- 1 - a kind of Basque spoken by the Amerindians of St Lawrence (reported by
>>Jacques Cartier in 1542)
>>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: History
>
>Sandy,
>
>I can't vouch for the veracity of the claim, and I do think that it could be a
>tall tale, but I do know that Basque immigration to the Americas goes back a long
>way. I once had a neighbor with a Basque last name, and when I asked him about
>it, he said that his Basque ancestry in North America goes way back. I asked if
>he meant the 1800s, and all he said was, "Way earlier than that."
>
I don't doubt the reality of Basque immigration, what I do doubt is very
early reports of "Basque Indians" such as Roger's item 1.

They do seem to parallel the early reports of "Welsh Indians" which, as
I said seem likely to be an attempt by the British to lay prior claim to
the Americas over the Spanish. We should consider the possibility that
the idea of "Basque Indians" is merely Spanish (or even French?)
counter-propaganda.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Oh, Sandy, I totally share your scepticism, take stories of this sort with at
least one very large grain of salt.  At the same time, I don't wish to totally
dismiss the possibility of people having reached North America and having
convened or even been absorbed into native groups.  

Outside Europe, Greenland is considered part of North America, and once you reach
Greenland (which the Old Scandinavians did, perhaps others as well) it's just a
hop and a skip to what is now Northeastern Canada (the Old Norse Vinland).  We
know that the ancestors of today's Faeroese had constant contacts with
Icelanders, and both have a long history of contacts and intermarriage with Celts
from Britain and Ireland, not to mention constant contacts with Scandinavians.

When it comes to stories about Basque or Welsh Indians, my first assumption is
that, if there's any truth to any of it, it is likely that there was some early
intermarriage, "early" as in "early colonial times," not pre-Columbian times.  I
do know that this happened and is still happening with Germans and Native
Americans, going back a long way, which is why so many Native Americans have
German last names.  It looks as though some ethnic groups among immigrants,
especially those that were not much liked by the "Anglos" or those that wanted to
get away from them (such as non-English people from Britain and Ireland), were
more likely to mix with indigenous people, in part also because they did not
share the prejudices that had been whipped up among English speakers to prepare
the way toward ethnocide and the like.  

Whenever I go to powwows here in the Seattle area, there are lots of Canadian
contingents, constituting perhaps as much as 50% of the participants.  Some
"tribes" or "bands" (and I hate these names) have incorporated into their
costumes European ethnic themes to represent their mixed heritage.  Most striking
are those Canadian ones that use Scottish tartans, and it's not just any old
tartans but specific ones.  Some members look almost or fully European, and the
fur hats make them look like early Scottish treckers gone native.  Then, of
course, there are the Métis, mostly from Quebec, speaking predominantly French
and Michif (a non-simplified, mostly Cree-based creole).  They are known to have
originated from very early French and Cree mixing.  Sometimes there are
contingents from the southeast of the United States, some of them "black," i.e.,
mixed with African slaves, some of them speaking indigenous-, French- and
Spanish-influenced English varieties.  They, too, go way back to the very early
days of slavery, including slave-keeping among Cherokees and the other "Civilized
Tribes" way before their expulson to Oklahoma.  (Those of part African descent
were usually spared expulsion and this is how my in-laws from Alabama are partly
Choctaw and Creek and partly African, besides partly European (thanks to both
"special treatment" by their ancestors' owners and their sons, and partly thanks
to later intermarriage with Irish and Welsh immigrants). Apparently there are
still some part-African Choctaw and Seminole speakers in Alabama and Florida.)

So I don't think it's totally out of the question that there were early mixtures
of indigenous Americans and certain European ethnicities, perhaps even resulting
in cultural and linguistic mixing.  Furthermore, I don't think it's impossible
that some of these stories were not recorded or records are no longer extant.  Of
course, this would be fertile grounds for concocting stories about pre-Columbian
explorers and the like.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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