LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.14 (08) [E/German]

Wed Mar 15 00:42:26 UTC 2006

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14 March 2006 * Volume 08
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (05) [E]

> From: Ian Pollock <ispollock at shaw.ca>
> Subject: LL-L Language varieties(?)
>
> Hello all;
>
> I got wondering the other day while studying protists, about the
> Greek/Latin scientific names used in western science. Obviously, any
> native speakers of Latin are dead, but I was curious what the speakers
> of Modern Greek think about these modern coinages based on old roots,
> e.g., dinoflagellata (whirling flagellum); diatom (through-cut).
> Specifically,
> 1.) Are these roots readily recognizable to modern Greeks?
> 2.) Do they sound silly?
>
> Cheers,
> -Ian

3) Are any of these coinages borrowed into Greek or do the Greeks prefer
to form their own?

David Barrow

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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (01) [E]

Ron wrote in response to Jacqueline:

As for "hangover," it's the same in Low Saxon (kater_ ["kQ:t3`]) and German
(_Kater_).

I'm sure there's some story behind this one.

That would be so funny if it came from some dimwit who got drunk and ended
up in an alley with a tomcat. Those mothers can be fierce!
Ben

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.14 (07) [D/E]

Felix wrote: "Even before, Katzenjammer had been used as a word for
hangover."

Back when I was a kid there was a comic strip in the U.S. called the
Katzenjammer Kids.  The main characters were two "German" boys that were
mischievous and frequently got into trouble.  They were depicted as "German"
by the spelling of their speech.  Lots of "dese" and "dose" for "these" and
"those."

Mark Brooks

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (01) [E]

Hi Ron,
> As for "hangover," it's the same in Low Saxon (kater_ ["kQ:t3`]) and
> German
> (_Kater_).
>
> I'm sure there's some story behind this one.
See in http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kater_(Alkohol)
"Das Wort "Kater" stammt ursprünglich aus der studentischen Umgangssprache
des
19. Jahrhunderts und ist scherzhaft abgeleitet von Katarrh." This is the
usual explanation for the origin here in Germany. The only thing that makes
me doubt this story is that a hangover and a Katarrh are very different. So
for this story to work, the only idea to make it probable is that it started
as a first-year-student's joke who did not know the meaning of the words.

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.13 (15) [E]

Could not a check of the oldest Gotland dialects find a close word? As I
understand (or overstand if you are German) it this dialect of Swedish
is strongly or at least somewhat influenced by Gothic.

Karl

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (01) [E]

"As for "hangover," it's the same in Low Saxon (kater_ ["kQ:t3`]) and
German (_Kater_).

I'm sure there's some story behind this one."

I agree and I believe that Heinekin, DAB, Beck's and St. Pauli Girl
companies should give large research funds and limitless free supplies
of their producys in order that we (I volunteer to help!!)
may study this effect on Germanic family people and on their linguistic
abilities during and after the intense research.

Karl

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables" 2006.03.13 (06) [E]

May I echo that advice; I have had "walking Pneumonia" creep up on me,
so that gradually, what I had thought was a bad cold became a severe
pneumonia with hospital stay.

Get Well!

Karl Schulte

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.03.14 (07) [D/E]

In an aside, now I know the meaning behind the title of a once popular comis
strip in USA about 50 years ago (which dated form the 1920's). It was about
a German family with kids who were constantly up to mischief, the
"Katzenjammer Kids".

Karl

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (05) [E]

Most of them are intelligible, although some do sound odd. For example,
as a result of meaning and culture shifts, the word "scholastic" meaning
studious among other things bears a positive connotation here, while it
is an slight insult (with the meaning of "bookworm" or "egghead") in
modern Greek. Nearly all know "opthalmos" but it sounds strange and
"scholastic" sort of like "pugilist" as opposed to fighter or boxer, as
the modern word is "matia" (plural). While it is changing in perhaps
upper class, there is a general bias against being learned (thats one
like beloved, adjective of 3 syllables), as evidenced in the recent
movement against Katherevousa, puristic, Attic like or Attic inspired
formal language in favor of Demtic. To me this is sad, as it moved the
population a few more steps away from their heritage (kleronomia) and
when Greek was, like spoke real good (what Demotic seems like to me). If
Modern Greeks would only speak Attic or at least Koine in daily
discourse, how nice it would be for Greek scholars!

Karl Schulte

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.03.14 (05) [E]

I must also addd, that in the case of Greeks here, once they begin to
learn more than basic English, they like the idea of these loan words,
as it brings them pride (See, if it wasn't for us Greeks, you would be
missing all those great big words in science and medicine!). My wife
being Greek and having many friends who are Greek and Greek American, I
have observed this first hand. By the way, she is from Istanbul; her
passport said under nationality "Roman" - as in Caesar and the Forum,
etc. not Romanian, due to a unique carry over from Osmanli days; upon
conquering major kingdoms, empieres, etc. the Sultan kept them as a
distinct entity, with an millet bashi or ethnarch, who replaced the
former ruler, and who reported to the Sultan. In this way, he could be
called king of kings like the Shah. Also, a tenuous but real link/thread
can be drawn from the last legion to city defense force to the honorary
guards (armed with at most a club or nightstick) of the Patriarch and
the muninciple police of Istanbul who are semi-independant (or were) of
the national police, unlike any other city police. In a simularly
tenuous way, which delights me as a history student (life long), my wife
was a Roman citizen (at least within Turkey).
She is now American (USA flavor).

Karl

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the etymological information about _kater_, folks.

I like your take on it, Ben.  :-)  It looks like the two of us can make each
other chuckle, doesn't it?  Yeah, you sure don't want to share a nightly
back lane with an un-neutered tomcat, certainly not in a state of
impairment.

Hey, Karl!  You're having fun on LL-L, don't you?

> Could not a check of the oldest Gotland dialects find a close word? As I
> understand (or overstand if you are German) it this dialect of Swedish
> is strongly or at least somewhat influenced by Gothic.

Are you referring to Gothlandic (_Gutnisk(a)_ or _Gutamål_), the language of
Gothland (~ _Gotland_, Swedish _Gotland_)?  It appears to be a North
Germanic language of the eastern branch, like Danish and Swedish.  Modern
Gothlandic is strongly influenced by Swedish, as has been Scanian
(_Skånska_, which was originally very close to Danish).  Originally,
Gothlandic may have been somewhere between Old Danish and Old Swedish.  Old
Gothlandic, of which few records are extant, is now seen as a relative of
Gothic by many, thus as a remnant of the language from which Gothic
descended before it traveled throughout Europe.

I don't know what "tomkat" is in Gothlandic, but I guess it's *_hankatt_
("he-cat") as in Swedish.  As far as I know, Swedish does not use this word
for "hangover," and I can find no _kater_-like word in Old Gothlandic or in
Gothic.

I have a sneaking suspicion that our _laiseigs jah filudeis waúrdtimrjans_
Arthurs (resident Gothologist) made up that *_kattar_ thing in one of his
"funny turns."  He's probably giggling as we speak.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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