LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.31 (01) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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31 March 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.28 (04) [D/E/V]

I'm really curious if members from outside the Netherlands, especially Low
Saxons and Frisians from Germany e.a., Flemish and Afrikaanders have
already listened to the Johan Veenstra's radio column (Stiekelstokkien) at
www.johan-veenstra.nl, and what their impression of the language is:
Was it easy to understand? Did it sound Low Saxon, or Dutch, or even
Frisian. For the (German) Low Saxon: did you think it was part of the same
language as your own, or really a different one? And why, of course.
Did the knowledge of your own dialect our language, or another one you
know, help you to understand it?

Groeten
Ingmar

>I wrote:
>For the ones who like to hear how the Stellingwarvian Low Saxon dialect of
>South East Friesland sounds, I really advise you to visit
>www.johan-veenstra.nl
>and click "beluuster stiekelstokkien".
>Johan Veenstra is the most successful Stellingwarvian writer and poet and
>his site changes these audio columns called "Stiekelstokkies" every month.
>In the nineties, Johan Veenstra had a weekly column at Omrop Fryslân, the
>Frisian "national" radiostation, and he became very popular and famous in
>whole Friesland because of that, even though his language is not Frisian,
>and he -as many Stellingwarvian Low Saxons- does not consider his home
>area as part of Friesland... Johan is a good friend of mine and his
>dialect is not very different from my own South West Drenthe Low Saxon
>dialect. So please visit his site and listen to his Stiekelstokkien.
>For anyone who knows some Dutch, Low Saxon, Afrikaans, Flemish or Frisian
>it must be quite easy to understand... This month the column is about
>names in Stellingwarvian Low Saxon for all kind of men...
>
>www.johan-veenstra.nl

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks a lot, Ingmar!  That's a nice audio presentation, a great opportunity 
for Dutch speakers and for Low Saxon speakers (especially of Germany) to 
practice listening comprehension of Stellingwerven Low Saxon.

I understand about 75-80% at first listening.  It sounds distinctly "Dutch" 
to me.  Indeed, in some regards it shares more phonology with Dutch than 
with most Low Saxon dialects of Germany, though the dialects of Eastern 
Friesland and Emsland are somewhat more related to it than other dialects of 
Germany.  The reality of it may well be that the phonologies of Low Saxon 
dialects of the Netherlands have been variously influenced by Dutch 
phonology, and that phonologies of the dialects of Germany have been 
variously influenced by German.  However, there are historical shifts that 
they all have in common (e.g., /er/ > /ar/), and there is much common 
lexicon and grammar.

Most glaringly, the phonology of the Stellingwerven dialects, like those of 
other Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands and many Westphalian dialects of 
Germany (besides the Low Franconian dialects), lack aspiration, which makes 
them sound very "Dutch" to the ears of _Oostersch_ (and Northern German) 
speakers.

Furthermore, there is general fricativization of /g/, which in Germany only 
occurs (at least to this extent) in the westernmost dialects.

Finally, there is the velarized /l/ at the end of syllables (e.g., /al/ 
[a:L] 'all', 'already', /elk/ [E:\L(@)k] 'each') that sound "Dutch" to us. 
However, this velarized /l/ (as in English "ball" and "silk") seems to have 
been a common feature in the eitire Low German (and probably Lowlands) 
group.  It is a feature that, evidently under German influence, has been 
disappearing in most of Northern Germany during the last half century.  You 
will hear very aged speakers of Low Saxon in Germany still using it, and it 
is featured in older phonological descriptions.

I hope this helped.

Please say hi to Johan.  Evidently he's an extraordinary man.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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