LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.31 (03) [E]

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31 March 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Marcel Bas <marcelbas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.30 (03) [E]


Dear all,

"Om het af te leren" is also used in Dutch as a sort of excuse to have one 
more drink.
"We moeten gaan. Nou, nog eentje dan, om het af te leren." As if the drinker 
will now stop drinking (for good).

I guess this would be _'n regmakertjie_ (little right-maker), in Afrikaans.

Off-topic, but funny: the Russians, known for their drinking habits, have a 
great way of having a last drink, and another one, and another one. It is an 
old habit: when a Russian is about to leave a bar or a home after a heavy 
night of vodka drinking, he says: "Pososhok!", i.e. 'a cane'. This refers to 
the cane that you will need to be able to walk home. So, you'll have another 
vodka, symbolised by the cane. Then, after 'the cane', you will have 
yourself a 'stir-up', to mount your horse with. That's another drink. Then 
you might have yourself a 'spur', and then you'll have a 'warm coat', ad 
infinitum. Until the cane won't be of much help!

Best regards,

Marcel.

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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.30 (03) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>What I would really like to know is how this tense system developed.
German
only has two "real" (sorry, I do not know a better word) tenses: Present
tense and Past tense. All other tenses are made using auxiliary
constructs.<

Why should a single word be more of a 'real' tense than an auxiliary + part
of verb?

Why do German strong verbs have a part participle clearly patterned in line
with the 'real' present and past tenses if the creation of tense forms by
using an auxiliary is such a 'new'  or 'unreal' formation?

Why do some modern linguists use the French future as an example of a
'real' tense when it has clearly evolved along the lines of the Vulgar
Latin of infinitive + habeo which supplanted the original Latin ...bo
future ending?

Why did I battle for c 4 years with a professor of Linguistics over his
entry in the National Literacy glossary in which he said: English only has
2 tenses. Which statement is not going to help pupils learning either their
mother tongue or a second language!!!

[Whoops! Do you think this subject is another cut to the quick?]

BW
Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hi, Heather!

For what it's worth, I'm totally on your side with your questions.

For some reason, there is this traditional Western (Greco-Roman-centered) 
assumption that dedicated word morphology makes cases and tenses "real," 
that compounding (and certainly "omission") is a substitute, disregarding 
that many grammatical morphemes are likely to have grown from compounding 
(of which there's clearer evidence in Altaic than in Indo-European). 
Besides, as you seem to imply, compound-based case and tense marking is just 
as "real" as anything else.

If only people knew how silly it is to say things like "The X language has 
fewer cases than the Y language"!  They all have the same cases, for Pete's 
sake!  It's only that they mark them differently.  English "I give the ring 
to my sister" and "I give my sister the ring" has dative and accusative just 
as much as does German _Ich gebe meinER Schwester deN Ring_, and German _Ich 
werde ihr den Ring geben_ ~ _Ich gebe ihr den Ring_ ('I will give her the 
ring') is just as much future tense as is French _Je lui donnerAI l'anneau_, 
Spanish _Le darÉ el anillo_ and Latin_DatABO ei annelum_.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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