LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.31 (07) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

31 March 2006 * Volume 07
=======================================================================

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.31 (01) [E]

Yes, I can understand the Dutchness of much of Low Saxon in the
Netherlands, just as for us the German LS sounds really... German.
An exception (relatively) is the Low Saxon of Winterswijk, my place of
birth, which is IMNSHO historically one of the purest examples of our
language (cf Anniversary site Achterhoek Wren story).

Johan Veenstra is really an extraordinary man, I'll hi him.
So, Ron understood about three quarters or more, but what about the
"normal" members? www.johan-veenstra.nl > beluuster stiekelstokkien

Ingmar

Unsen Rein het schreven:
>Thanks a lot, Ingmar!  That's a nice audio presentation, a great
>opportunity
>for Dutch speakers and for Low Saxon speakers (especially of Germany) to
>practice listening comprehension of Stellingwerven Low Saxon.
>
>I understand about 75-80% at first listening.  It sounds
distinctly "Dutch"
>to me.  Indeed,
in some regards it shares more phonology with Dutch than
>with most Low Saxon dialects of Germany, though the dialects of Eastern
>Friesland and Emsland are somewhat more related to it than other dialects
of
>Germany.  The reality of it may well be that the phonologies of Low Saxon
>dialects of the Netherlands have been variously influenced by Dutch
>phonology, and that phonologies of the dialects of Germany have been
>variously influenced by German.  However, there are historical shifts that
>they all have in common (e.g., /er/ > /ar/), and there is much common
>lexicon and grammar.
>
>Most glaringly, the phonology of the Stellingwerven dialects, like those
of
>other Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands and many Westphalian dialects
of
>Germany (besides the Low Franconian dialects), lack aspiration, which
makes
>them sound very "Dutch" to the ears of _Oostersch_ (and Northern German)
>speakers.
>
>Furthermore, there is general fricativization of /g/, which in Germany
only
>occurs (at least to this extent) in the westernmost dialects.
>
>Finally, there is the velarized /l/ at the end of syllables (e.g., /al/
>[a:L] 'all', 'already', /elk/ [E:\L(@)k] 'each') that sound "Dutch" to us.
>However, this velarized /l/ (as in English "ball" and "silk") seems to
have
>been a common feature in the eitire Low German (and probably Lowlands)
>group.  It is a feature that, evidently under German influence, has been
>disappearing in most of Northern Germany during the last half century.
You
>will hear very aged speakers of Low Saxon in Germany still using it, and
it
>is featured in older phonological descriptions.
>
>I hope this helped.
>
>Please say hi to Johan.  Evidently he's an extraordinary man.
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron
>
>From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.28 (04) [D/E/V]
>
>I'm really curious if members from outside the Netherlands, especially Low
>Saxons and Frisians from Germany e.a., Flemish and Afrikaanders have
>already listened to the Johan Veenstra's radio column (Stiekelstokkien) at
>www.johan-veenstra.nl, and what their impression of the language is:
>Was it easy to understand? Did it sound Low Saxon, or Dutch, or even
>Frisian. For the (German) Low Saxon: did you think it was part of the same
>language as your own, or really a different one? And why, of course.
>Did the knowledge of your own dialect our language, or another one you
>know, help you to understand it?

----------

From: Stellingwerfs Eigen <info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2006.03.31 (01) [E]

Ingmar wrote:
> have already listened to the Johan Veenstra's radio column
(Stiekelstokkien)

Beste Ingmar (and all),
As een vergeliek dot ien zoe'n stokkien et dan misschien wel aorig mar pas
ok op daj' ien zoe'n stokkien van iene manspersoon niet as veur
middelgewieze annemen. Johan zien woordeschat is veer boven de middelmaote
en hi'j is al zoe'n dattig jaor verhaeleverteller mar het daornaost ok een
hiele 'eigen meniere' van praoten en zeggen (toon, klaankkleur, intonaosie,
e.z.v.). Veurbeeld: Johan het et altied over zien _moeder_. Dat _moeder_ is
vanzels honderd percent Nederlaans. In Stellingwarf zeggen we toch warkelik
waor gewoonweg _moeke_, "va en moeke".
Nog es: in dat stokkien kuj' dr'best een betien een gevuul bi'j kriegen mar
reken et niet te vlogge as et middelgewieze Stellingwarfs.
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf (Fryslân),
Piet Bult 

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================