LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.13 (01) [A/E/LS]

Fri Oct 13 15:19:36 UTC 2006

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 12 October 2006 * Volume 01
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From: 'Kevin Caldwell' [kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.08 (02) [D/E]

> From: jonny [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
> Subject: LL-L 'Ethymology'
>
> So in LS we have to make a clear difference between words of the '-spill'-
> type (I
> just know two of them; the mentioned 'Karspill' and the 'Spill', E
> 'capstan'
> [though here might be doubts allowed; on sailing-vessels it describes a
> big,
> hand-driven wheel, and sometimes right upon the centre may sit a sailor
> with any
> instrument to make music while the crew is lifting the anchor- 'er spielt
> auf'!])
> and those of the wider-spread '-speel'-type.
>
> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Moyen, Jonny!
>
> You wrote above:
>
> > G 'Spiel', LS (correct) 'Speel/SpÃ¤l'', LS (wrong) 'Spill', E
> 'play/game'.
>
> I'm not too sure this is a case of right and wrong. Sure, I say _speel_
> [spe:l],
> but I was under the impression that _spil_ (_spill_ [spI.l]) is a
> dialectical
> variant (just as _spoel_ [spÃ¸:l] is), though _spil_ may have begun as a
> "mistake," considering that the verb is *never* *_spillen_, as far as I
> know.
>
> _Spil_ (_Spill_ [spI.l] < _Spille_, fem.) means 'windlass', 'capstan'.

Just curious about this _Spil_ or _Spill_, especially as it relates to a
windlass or capstan. Is it connected with English 'spool'?

Kevin Caldwell

----------

From: Mark Dreyer [mrdreyer at lantic.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.12 (03) [E/LS]

Beste Jonny, Ron:

Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

> kennt Jii dat Woord (adj) LS _dalberig_, G 'albern', E: 'silly' un doorvan
> avv-kÃ¶mstig (verbum) LS _dalbern_ , G '(herum-)albern', E 'to fool around'?
> Dat Woord waard foken bruukt, wenn de lÃ¼tten GÃ¶r'n 'nix as dumm TÃ¼ch' in jemmer
> Kopp hebbt un tou'n Biispeel ne jemmer Stuuv opp-oybern wÃ¶llt man jÃ¼mmer wiider
> speelt un Narr'nkroom mookt. 

> Ja, ik ken "dalberig" ~ "dalverig" un de verwandten woyrd' wul. Ik har jÃ¼mmers
> an-namen dat weyr 'n metathees' vorm vun "dwallerig" (as in "dwaller-watschig",
> "mal un dwal" u.s.w.). As ik jÃ¼st nu daar oever na-dinken deed', daar keym my de
> idee dwallerig voer (;-)). Man den keyk ik in 't Old-Sassisch woyrd'bouk na, un
> daar vÃ¼nd ik dÃ¼t: 

Wat van die eenvoudige woord 'dol' - 'waansinnig' soos in 'Dolle Griet'? Ek
weet hierdie woord kom in Flaams voor, en dit word ook in die Oue Breugel se
werk gebruik. Hy het 'n treurspel geskilder, van die kampanje van 'Dulle
Griet', en daar sien jy die treurige ou ding met haar lawwe hordes agteraan,
bebesig om die Duiwel aan 'n kussing vas te keten.

Uit die einste brief, is 'Grimr' nie die skuilnaam van Woedan nie, wanner hy
hom vermom en tussen die Mens verkeer? In Afrikaans is 'n dame se lipstiffie
ens. as haar 'grimering' genoem. Die Heere verhoed dat sy as haar eie
geskape self in die publiek verkeer! Ek sou 'Grimm' in die moderne Engels as
'disguise' vertaal.

Groete,
Mark

So tussen haakies, wanner skat julle sal die stelsel reg kom? My koppie loop
al leeg van julle prettige Laelandse grepies.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Kevin!

> Just curious about this _Spil_ or _Spill_, especially as it relates to a
> windlass or capstan. Is it connected with English 'spool'?

Hmmm ... I doubt it.  In Modern Low Saxon you have _spuul_ ([spu:l] < _spule_)
for 'spool', and Old Saxon has _spÅla_.

Ah!  English has the now rarely used word "spill" in the sense of 'spindle',
'axis', 'pin', 'stalk', and this appears to be related to (feminine) Low Saxon
and Dutch _spil_ < _spille_ and now rarely used German _Spille_ (< Middle
Saxon?).  These are related to "spin" and "spindle" in that they are derived from
_spilla_ < *_spin-la_.  Old Saxon has _spinnila_ for 'spindle' ("little spinning
thing").

I rather suspect that "spill" in the sense of 'pin' or 'stalk' comes from another
word, a cognate of Old Saxon _spÄ«nela_ ("little spine") 'pin', 'hairpin'.

Haai, Mark!

> Wat van die eenvoudige woord 'dol'

Dis met _dwal-_ nie verwant nie glo ek. "Dol" is verwant met Duits _toll_ 'dol',
Nedersaksisch _dol_ ~ _dul_ 'dol' en Engels _dull_ ...

Ag, nee! Ek neem dit terug. Dit lyk om verwant te wees! Hierdie woorde kom van
Germanies *_dul_, ablaut van *_dwel-_ 'dwaas wees' -- en *_dwel-_ moet 'n
umlaut-vorm van _dwal-_ wees.  Bravo, Mark!

Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

***

> So tussen haakies, wanner skat julle sal die stelsel reg kom? My koppie loop
> al leeg van julle prettige Laelandse grepies.

Gou hoop ons. Maar die probleem is dat Henry, Mathieu en ek tans ongewoon besig
met ons ware lewe is. Die ou epos-rekening lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net is hergestel
en jullie behoort postings soos in die verlede na
lowlands at listserv.linguistlist.org te stuur.

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