LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.10.31 (06) [E/LS]

Tue Oct 31 20:51:05 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 31 October 2006 * Volume 06
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From: 'A Victorie' [victorie.a at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.10.31 (02) [E]

Moi John,

Mien moe zée altied aw vreugen "wat eete wij?"
"Stop in de mond en eet op"

Goodgaon,
Arend Victorie 

---------

From: 'Mark Dreyer' [mrdreyer at lantic.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Membership' 2006.10.29 (01) [E/LS]

> From: 'jonny' [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
> Subject: LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.10.26 (04) [E]
>
> Beste Ingmar,
>
> you wrote:
>
>> Jonny M schreef:
>> >Beste Ingmar,
>> >you had been lost for a couple of weeks!

> From: 'Global Moose Translations' [globalmoose at t-online.de]
> Subject: LL-L 'Membership' 2006.10.28 (01) [E]

> Don't forget, dear Ingmar, that we're Lowlanders. Forget about Ron and
> some
> of his more enthusiastic messages; he has become an American, after all,
> and
> seems to have adapted to their mentality. Personally, I'm not into
> constantly telling my friends - and hearing from them - what wonderful
> people we are.
>
> It's been discussed on the board before; while Americans will say "I love
> you" in public ten times a day and more, a typical Northern German would
> flinch to be overheard saying it by a third party even once in a lifetime.
>
> I once went to visit friends in my village; I had been gone for two years
> then. They had no door bell, so I just stepped right into their kitchen,
> they all said hello, and then continued doing whatever they had been busy
> with, allowing me to settle in, but not making a fuss over me. This way,
> it
> felt like coming home, and like I had never been gone. I was still part of
> the family, not just some visitor. And this is what it's like with most of
> my old friends.
>
> It's the same on the message board. If I seem to take it for granted that
> you have come back, it is because in my mind, you have never been away in
> the first place. At least here in the Solling, the less people seem to
> notice you, the more they are saying "you are one of our own".
>
> Gabriele

> ----------
>
> From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' [info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl]
> Subject: LL-L 'Membership'
>> It's been discussed on the board before; while Americans will say "I love
>> you" in public ten times a day and more, a typical Northern German would
>> flinch to be overheard saying it by a third party even once in a
>> lifetime.
>
> I think it was *you* that claimed this before, Gabriele. I know lots and
> lots of
> Americans that would never say "I love you" to all and sundry in public,
> and I
> know lots and lots of North Germans that would. I would even go as far as
> saying
> that your assessment of me is yet again based on false assumptions, for I
> have
> always been like this and so has my entire mishpokhe and most of its
> friends.
> Maybe all of us were destined to become stereotypical Americans and most
> of us
> never made it across the "pond." Or it has something to do with our
> Eastern
> roots and with the relatively more carefree, diverse and cosmopolitan
> ambiance of
> Hamburg and its surroundings, which may also explain why I am hesitant to
> pass
> value judgment on other cultures. But then again, last time I checked,
> people of
> Hamburg were North Germans too (though they may seem like degenerate
> metropolitans to some communities). The late Tant Clara loved to say "I
> love
> you" to lots of people in private and in public, and her native culture
> and
> language are authentically rural North German.
>
>> Don't forget, dear Ingmar, that we're Lowlanders. Forget about Ron and
>> some
>> of his more enthusiastic messages; he has become an American, after all,
>> and
>> seems to have adapted to their mentality. Personally, I'm not into
>> constantly telling my friends - and hearing from them - what wonderful
>> people we are.
>
> That has nothing to do with being American, but it has everything to do
> with my
> personal beliefs, views and feelings, with my personality, and I don't
> think that
> this disqualifies me as being accepted as a Lowlander. But then again, it
> is not
> I who has worked out what the stereotypical profile of a Lowlander is.
>
> Kumpelmenten,
>
> Reinhard/Ron

Hello, everyone! This is Mark's wife, Ruth, daring to post a little because
of some kind words Ron wrote before, mainly that one only has to have an
interest in the subject and doesn't have to be a maven, (and that this is a
warm and fuzzy list, which does put a spot of courage into me).

Being an American in South Africa, this conversation reminded me of how
difficult it was to understand my in-laws' reticence in expressing emotion,
which I took personally for a while until I realized it was cultural. (The
first time I heard my mother-in-law say she loved me, which was many years
after we moved here, was in the sense of, "Much as I love Ruth, I don't
understand blah blah". Not the most affirming way of putting it, but better
than nothing!)

What I want to ask the list is: What are your different responses to when a
friend signs off "Love whoever"? Americans, or at least I, don't use much
else with friends and family, and even in less close relationships. We would
only use "Sincerely" in a business context. However, since moving here I
have become shy about using it, since getting a letter back from a good
friend that says "Regards" or even "Warm regards" seems like the person is
trying to distance themselves from you after you have said, "Love". Do
people take it as inappropriate or pushy in the "rest of the world"?

Thanks,
(See I'm doing it again...)
Ruth

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Idiomatica

When I was a kid, the usual response to asking what was for lunch or dinner
tended to be _Was aauf'm Tisch komp" in Missingsch and _Wat op'n Disch kümmt_ in
Low Saxon, so "Whatever's (put) on the table," occasionally things like
_Eselsohrn mit große Bohnen_ ("Donkeys' ears with fava beans/broad beans").

Hi, Ruth!  Nice to see you following through with your promise.

I would not use "Love" to end business letters or letters to people that I don't
consider friends.  I use it only in letters to closer friends, in North America
only to female friends (without sexual overtones) or mixed groups.  Otherwise I
use "Best regards," "All the best," etc., depending on the level of formality.

In German I mostly use phrases like _Herzliche Grüße_ ("cordial
greetings/regards") or _Freundliche Grüße_ ("friendly greetings/regards").  I
tend to use _Liebe Grüße_ ("fond greetings/regards") or _Alles Liebe_ (ca.
"(with) all fondness") in addressing relatives and close friends.

In Low Saxon I tend to use _Kumpelmenten_ ("compliments") or _Fründliche Grötens_
("friendly greetings"), in addressing relatives and friends _Leve Grötens_ ("fond
greetings/regards"), or _Hold Di/Ji fuchtig!_ ("keep being vivacious/feisty"). 
Tant Clara would say, _Ik drück Di/Jo ganz doll_ ("I'm squeezing/hugging you like
crazy").

In communicating with friends in Portuguese it tends to be _Abraços_
("embraces/hugs"), with those in Portugal often _Abraçinhos_ (diminutive of
"embraces/hugs") or even _Beijinhos e abraçinhos_ (diminutive: "kissies and
huggies").  This is rarely inappropriate, because people in Portuguese-speaking
countries are not scared of emotions and physicalness.

In Yiddish it tends to be formal מיט גרױסע אַכטונג _Mit groyse akhtung_ ("With
great respect"),  מיט אַ גרוס _mit a grus_ ("with a greeting"), otherwise מיט שײנע
גריסן _Mit sheyne grisn_ ("with nice greetings/regards") or מיט האַרציקע גריסן
_Mit hartsike grisn_ ("with cordial/loving greetings/regards"), occasionally מיט
אַן אַרומנעם _Mit an arumnem_ ("with a hug").

Groetjes,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: 'Elsie Zinsser' [ezinsser at icon.co.za]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.10.31 (02) [E]

Hi all,

John, the standard answer in Afrikaans was:

"Husse met lang ore".

Mostly it was just liver and onions or frikkadelle met rys en sous,
or a hidden surprise treat.

Cheers,
Elsie Zinsser

In Lancashire when children used to ask questions that adults were unwilling
(or
unable) to answer, they had a standard reply: 'Layors for meddlers!' For
example
the child would ask: 'What is in that parcel?' The adult would answer:
'Layors
for meddlers!' The child would know that no further information would be
forthcoming! Now, _meddler_ is of course a noun from the verb _to meddle_,
i.e.
'to interfere', 'to be over curious' [at least I presume that is the word
and not
the word _medlar_ , the name of a fruit], but what on earth are _layors_ ?!
The
pronunciation, by the way, was ['leijo:rz].

And secondly, do any other Lowlanders recall such phrases that formed
retorts to
children delving into matters that didn't concern them? I feel sure that
there
must have been many such phrases in the different languages.

John Duckworth
Manchester

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